FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink
A FAIR Analysis of: MormonThink A work by author: Anonymous
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| High Level Summary | |
|---|---|
| Title | MormonThink.com |
| Type | Website |
| Author(s) | Anonymous; Webmaster uses the pseudonyms "Truthseeker" and "SpongeBob SquareGarments" |
| Affiliation | "Active" members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; Ex-Mormons active on the Recovery from Mormonism message board. Recent indications suggest that the only "active" member is the webmaster. |
| Accuracy | Conclusions drawn are predominantly negative toward the truth claims of the Church. |
| Temple content | NOTE: Extremely detailed temple content is posted on the web site |
Sub-articles
== Responses to the content of the website are located in the following sub-articles:
Overview of the MormonThink website
Summary: The web site MormonThink.com claims to be operated by active members of the Church with an interest in objectively presenting the "truth" about Mormonism. In general, the conclusions reached by the site reflect negatively on the Church.Response to MormonThink's list of 25 items that would allegedly "make the Church true"
Summary: According to MormonThink.com, if the Church actually contained God's truth and authority, "we would expect the following things to have happened in this way." The following is a list of issues presented by the website followed by FAIR's response. Most items on the list are standard anti-Mormon fare, issues FAIR believes have been "asked and answered" many times. Nearly all points appeal to some type of intellectual or religious fundamentalism.A FAIR Analysis of MormonThink page "The Witnesses"
Summary: A detailed review of the MormonThink page "The Witnesses" (http://mormonthink.com/witnessesweb.htm)A FAIR Analysis of MormonThink page "Polygamy"
Summary: A detailed review of the MormonThink page "Polygamy" (http://mormonthink.com/joseph-smith-polygamy.htm)A FAIR Analysis of MormonThink page "Translation of the Book of Mormon"
Summary: A detailed review of the MormonThink page "Translation of the Book of Mormon" (http://mormonthink.com/transbomweb.htm)MormonThink Table of Contents
Summary: Correlation of MormonThink's Table of Contents with FAIR Wiki responsesOverview
Mormonthink.com is a site produced by members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who are interested in the historical accuracy of our church and how it is being taught to its members and portrayed in the media.
Statement at the top of the MormonThink website
About 25 Latter-day Saints have contributed substantially to the MormonThink website. The majority of those people are active, church-going members of the LDS Church. We have held positions ranging from Gospel Doctrine teachers, YW Presidents to Bishop. Some of us have written faith-promoting articles that have been published in the Ensign and other church publications. Most of us have served missions and almost all of us have been married in the temple. We're just average everyday members that have a real interest in learning about accurate church history without all the sugarcoating that we often receive in Gospel Doctrine classes....Most of us still attend church regularly, do our home-teaching every month, and perform callings and service. Some have drifted into inactivity. Others have found the issues identified on this web site to be too troubling to allow them to remain active in the church.
"Who are we?", MormonThink website.
The website mormonthink.com is designed to lead Church members into questioning their beliefs in a non-threatening manner by claiming to be "objective" and "balanced." The site claims to be run by active members of the Church. In reality, however, they are "active" only in the sense that they still attend Church—they do not accept the Church's truth claims, and they have no interest in strengthening belief. The site includes links to FAIR as a way of demonstrating their "balance." The true motivation behind the site is to persuade members to question their beliefs. The most effective demonstration of this motivation is to read what the site owner himself states on ex-Mormon message boards, as well as testimonials of those who no longer believe in the Church.
The webmaster of MormonThink in his own words
The webmaster of MormonThink posts in several online ex-Mormon message boards under the names "SpongeBob SquareGarments," "mormonthink," and "LDS Truthseeker". The best explanation of his website and its purpose is offered in his own words.
From the admin of MormonThink
As the guy who gets most of the email directed to the MormonThink website, I can say that 19 out of 20 people that read through the website say it changed their minds and they no longer believe in the church and usually write to thank those that helped make the site. But 1 out of 20 is someone that has read most of it, or has read a lot of it, and still believes. I have had ongoing conversations with these people and they continue to believe (at least for now). I think if people really want to believe that something is true, they will find a way to do it - like the apologists who know as much as any of us do. However, my experience is that if you can actually get someone to look at all the facts via a few websites or books, that the majority will stop believing in the church and that 100% of those that viewed everything will at least have a diminished view of the church they thought they knew.
Posted by SpongeBob SquareGarments on thread "Ever Get a TBM to Read a Book or Website Exposing the Truth About Mormonism?", Recovery from Mormonism, April 20, 2012.
So that is one of the reasons I remain in the church. It gives me greater credibility when I speak about my own religion instead of it being my former religion. We all know as soon as I leave it, I am labeled as someone who left because of morality, tithing or some other issue rather than the historical problems of the church. One reason that Grant Palmer's book has been so successful is that he is a current member[1] (although now disfellowshipped) and not vilified like the Tanners. By subtly mentioning things in meetings I may raise some doubts or by carrying around a copy of ‘An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins’ or Sunstone or Dialogue, I am sometimes asked about them and can gently guide someone to further enlightenment about church history. So you can consider myself one who tries to share the historical problems of the Church from within instead of from outside the Church. It's tough sometimes but I don't take any crap from anyone. I no longer pay tithing or wear garments and blow off callings I don't want but I remain a member because I choose to be one....The hardest challenge for me is to keep some level of integrity. I never lie at church (i.e. give a false testimony) but I play the game to keep membership but don't want to be given callings I don't want. I don't mind going to church (but not all the time) but don't like to be hounded to go to the temple and such. ALSO, it is very hard for me not to stand up and tell the teacher that the manual is wrong or call out some member (a friend) for saying something in error. It is hard to sit though many of the meetings when I know [so] much more truth than any of them do. And I can't just stand up and tell them.....No tithing but I give a fair share to other worthy charities. I'm not a big drinker but I do drink now and then if I want to.....I must admit I am cautious about that. Not so much for me but for my wife so I don't normally drink in public. yeah, I feel like a kid hiding beer at home from my ne[i]ghbors but it's the price I pay.
—Comment posted by "active Mormon" MormonThink webmaster on thread "'I am the webmaster of MormonThink.com AMA'," ex-Mormon reddit, Jan. 2012
I fantasize about a full-blown faith-destroying session. In real life, I did put the bishop in his place over polygamy. He kept saying I was wrong about Joseph having other wives and being illegal and such. I proved him wrong and he ate crow.
—MormonThink's webmaster, posted as "SpongeBob SquareGarments" on Recovery from Mormonism, Feb. 21, 2012
OUR OPPORTUNITY GUYS AND GALS: Make sure you call in with a good question or 2 so it will give Grant [Palmer] a reason to bring up something damaging - B[ook] O[f] A[braham], Kinderhook Plates, polyandry, etc.
—Posted by: "SpongeBob SquareGarments" on Recovery from Mormonism on May 18 during a call-in show featuring Grant Palmer.
Testimonials from those who no longer believe in the Church because of MormonThink
I went from believing to non believing literally within minutes, while reading about the [Book of Abraham] on 'MormonThink'. It was on a Sunday evening. That Sunday was the last time I went to church. My family resigned a month after that.
Ex-Mormon Mia, posted on Recovery from Mormonism, April 20, 2012.
Every single person, mormon, or not, that asks me why I left, get sent to [MormonThink]. How many have gone there I don't know. If someone REALLY wants to know why I left, they have to read MormonThink. My husband, two adult children and myself all left the church last year. MormonThink was our main go to source for information.
secondvision, posted to ex-Mormon subreddit, March 2012.
After reading up at 'mormonthink.com' this week, I realized the church wasn't true. I realized that I wouldn't have to obey anymore stupid rules. I was free to think for myself and have no obligations toward the leaders of the church. No longer will the choices I make cause me to feel like I'm a bad person. This whole week I've been the happiest I can remember!!
LeConnor, posted on ex-Mormon subreddit, 2012.
Somewhere there was a link to 'mormonthink.com' and that's when everything came apart for me really fast. I read almost the entire site over the next three days (in secret with private browsing on)... It was the first time I had ever even considered that the Church might not be true, and all the concerns and doubts I had over the years made so much more sense if none of it was true to begin with. I knew right then that there was no going back, I no longer believed it, and I had to get out of it just to be honest to myself.
_OhByTheWay_, posted on ex-Mormon subreddit, 2011.
Hey guys, The missionaries are coming over today to see me and my roommates. Thanks to the beautiful website mormonthink.com, I'm sure I have enough knowledge to bring up some very difficult questions.I thought I'd drop by to see what your favorite questions to ask the missionaries are. Ideally, I'd like the questions to start a chain reaction effect leading them to questioning their religion. It's unlikely but worth a shot!
HelloHiHello, posted on ex-Mormon subreddit, 2011.
I suppose that when our exmo numbers reached a certain critical mass, it'd be possible to pull off some interesting campaigns. Aren't there something like 5,000 ward buildings in North America? With a stencil and a can of white spray paint, the URL for MormonThink could be placed on the black asphalt roadway leading to the church parking lot.. If that action was coordinated to happen on the same day across the country, hmmm...
Chino_Blanco, posted on ex-Mormon reddit, 2011.
The big thing I don't understand is how the members who run the site can still be members. If I'd known half of all that stuff sooner I would have gotten out before I did. Why don't they?
rosemary, posted on Recovery from Mormonism, April 20, 2012.
I think that it is a crucial site for [True Believing Mormons] to discover the truth. The fact that 'Mormonthink.com' is run by members removes any suspicion of "anti-mormon" material. I LOVE THE SITE.
Angelina5, posted on Recovery from Mormonism, April 20, 2012.
I personally am still a member and I think I stay in mainly just to s[t]ay on top of the latest happenings in Moism and it gives me fodder to add to the website seeing the latest craziness the church is spewing out. We also have friends there and don't want to lose them but we don't let the church push us around and we take it on our own terms - no tithing, garmies or other things we disagree with.
SpongeBob SquareGarments, responding to this praise on Recovery from Mormonism, April 20, 2012.
Other testimonials
Can you show me a more honest representation of the church and its history online -- anywhere? I can't think of a more honest one...warts and all. Can you? Certainly not FAIR or FARMS. Certainly not LDS.org.
My challenge remains: find me a web site that is more honest/objective/accurate/comprehensive on factual Mormon history than Mormon Think. I'm all eyes/ears.
Both (all) sites are biased -- I think that the FAIR site is 50x more biased than Mormon Think. Just my opinion.
My experience is that the FAIR/FARMS spin ultimately causes much more harm than good. It's just rarely credible to thoughtful, objective people who are trying to uncover the "truth." Consequently, it can be really discouraging when folks go to FAIR/FARMS and are sorely disappointed. They so often come away saying, "Really? That's the best the apologists can do?" You guys have a really hard job. I honestly admire it on some level. But you are at your weakest when you attack others...as Christians. So weak. (ellipses in original)
Part of what I'm trying to say is that while perfect objectivity is impossible, there are shades of objectivity...and then there is the decision to not be objective at all. I'd argue that you/FAIR/FARMS fall closer to the "not even trying to be objective" scale....and something like MormonThink is at least trying to some degree...even though there is a bias. (ellipses in original)
John Dehlin, posts on Dehlin’s Facebook wall, 3-4 January 2012, off-site
Endnotes
- [note] It should be noted that Grant Palmer has since resigned his Church membership.