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Critic's comment: Even the most avid Mormon apologists in modern times have had a difficult time dealing with the obvious fact that figures 2 and 4 above are female figures, yet labeled by Joseph as Pharaoh and his son. Joseph's claims for this illustration were challenged as early as 1856. | Critic's comment: Even the most avid Mormon apologists in modern times have had a difficult time dealing with the obvious fact that figures 2 and 4 above are female figures, yet labeled by Joseph as Pharaoh and his son. Joseph's claims for this illustration were challenged as early as 1856. | ||
|think= | |think= | ||
*{{antispeak|mutually exclusive}} If critics believe that Joseph was intelligent enough to create the Book of Mormon, then they cannot assume that he is unintelligent enough to mistake women for men. There has to be a reason he did this, and we simply don't know what it is yet. | *{{antispeak|mutually exclusive}} If critics believe that Joseph was intelligent enough to create the Book of Mormon, then they cannot assume that he is unintelligent enough to mistake women for men. There has to be a reason he did this, and we simply don't know what it is yet. | ||
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Revision as of 15:43, 12 May 2012
A FAIR Analysis of: MormonThink A work by author: Anonymous
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A FAIR Analysis of MormonThink page "The Book of Abraham"
FAIRMORMON'S VIEW OF THE CRITICS' CONCLUSIONS
The positions that this MormonThink article appears to take are the following:
FAIRMORMON'S RESPONSE AND SUPPORTING DATA
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
A FACSIMILE FROM
THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM
No. 3
Critic's comment: Even the most avid Mormon apologists in modern times have had a difficult time dealing with the obvious fact that figures 2 and 4 above are female figures, yet labeled by Joseph as Pharaoh and his son. Joseph's claims for this illustration were challenged as early as 1856.
FairMormon commentary
- The author is making mutually exclusive claims: —When critics need an attack against the Church, any excuse will do, even if they are mutually self-contradictory: if one argument is true, the other cannot be.
If critics believe that Joseph was intelligent enough to create the Book of Mormon, then they cannot assume that he is unintelligent enough to mistake women for men. There has to be a reason he did this, and we simply don't know what it is yet.
Additional information
- Facsimile 3—The following are common criticisms associated with Facsimile 3: 1) The scene depicted is a known Egyptian vignette which some Egyptologists claim has nothing to do with Abraham, 2) Joseph indicated that specific characters in the facsimile confirmed the identities that he assigned to specific figures, 3) Joseph identified two obviously female figures as "King Pharaoh" and "Prince of Pharaoh." (Link)
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Figure Number 7
Evaluation of Joseph Smith's Translation of Facsimile No. 2 Text. Of particular note is Fig 7 (bottom right shown upside down). Joseph said it represents God sitting upon his throne. Egyptologists say that this is the god "Min." Min is an "ithyphallic god," that is, a sexually aroused male deity. His erect penis is clearly shown. It's interesting to note that in some earlier editions of the BOA the church erased the penis so it wouldn't look pornographic. It has since been restored in our current versions. But isn't it somewhat disturbing that Joseph would say that this pagan god with his exposed penis is our Heavenly Father?
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Our comment: It should be noted that not all nonMormon Egyptologists agree that there should be a second bird in the middle of the facsimile. Dr. Lanny Bellsupports the idea that the figure on the table is indeed holding up two hands. However, no nonMormon Egyptologists believe Anubis (the priest as identified by Joseph) was holding a knife or that he had a man's head instead of a Jackal's head.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Joseph's Egyptian Alphabet & Grammar.
There is a set of documents that the church has always had in its possession commonly referred to as the "Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar" by Joseph Smith. Most of us remember hearing a little bit about it growing up in the church but not really knowing what it was. It was only briefly and rarely mentioned in church. With the discovery of the missing papyri in 1966, critics claim that these documents show a definite link between the papyri and the actual text of the Book of Abraham.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
The Book of Abraham supports the concept of polygamy as Abraham took another wife as directed by the Lord. Perhaps what's even more significant is that God actually instructs Abraham to lie about it. God tells Abraham that he must lie to the Egyptians and tell them that his wife is really his sister so they wouldn't take her from him (Abraham 2:22-25). This is the only scriptural reference that we know of where God instructs someone to lie.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Critic's Point: If it wasn't for the Book of Abraham, it is possible that two of the most controversial and objectionable doctrines of the LDS church (polygamy anddenying the priesthood to blacks) would not have happened or have been as prominent as they were. Polygamy was already in practice by Joseph but perhaps it would not have been so prominently practiced by the members if there was no Book of Abraham to support the practice. It's also interesting to note that eventually the LDS church abandoned both of these doctrines, which were at one point taught as eternal principles.
Author's source(s)
- By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus by Charles M. Larson p 20-22.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Critic's Comment: One of the most significant things that any church does is to canonize scripture. The LDS church canonized the Book of Abraham by unanimous vote of the first presidency and the quorum of the 12 in 1880. If the LDS church made a mistake by canonizing the Book of Abraham then that mistake is so serious that the LDS Church that existed, since at least 1880, cannot possibly be God's true church, regardless of whether or not anything that happened in its history prior to this time was indeed divinely inspired.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
The Book of Joseph.
Joseph, in describing the papyri, said that one of the scrolls contained the writings of Abraham and the other the writings of Joseph of Egypt. Much of the papyri referred to as the Book of Joseph was rediscovered and is now the church's possession. It also has been examined by Egyptologists and identified as the Egyptian Book of the Dead for the lady Ta-shert-Min, daughter of Nes-Khensu" and has nothing to do with Joseph of Egypt.
Author's source(s)
- An Insider's View of Mormon Origins. pgs 25-35, Grant Palmer
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Had Joseph Smith actually translated the papyri, he would have referred to the figures as the four sons of Horus and given their actual names of Imset, Hapt, Qebe-senuwef and Duwa-mutef. This would have stood as a powerful witness to the truthfulness of the BOA and to Smith's prophetic role but Joseph gave incorrect non-Egyptian names....Daniel Peterson in his article News from Antiquity makes the following bold statement in an effort to show how Joseph was somehow correct when he identified the 4 gods as real Sumerian gods even though he got the names wrong and that they were not Egyptian gods....Peterson does not show the proof in the article. He merely lists a footnote. The footnote (#5) only states “See Lundquist, “Was Abraham at Ebla?” p. 232; Tvedtnes and Christensen, Ur of the Chaldeans, pp. 32–33.”
This is totally unacceptable. If you are going to make bold claims that challenge established views, then you can't simply write "See this book and that book" in the footnotes and expect to be taken seriously, especially when the sources you cite are not widely available. The reason he did this is clear.....Our Comment: This shows the importance of actually looking at the footnotes and the research that writers use to support bold claims. In light of Thompson's comments on Lunquist's flawed reasoning, Daniel Peterson's comments about Joseph correctly identifying the four gods is not to be taken as evidence supporting Joseph.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
The name Egyptus
Where does the word "Egyptus" come from? It's the Greek name for Memphis which was called, at that time, Het Ka Ptah--"home of the Ka of Ptah." Just like the Hebrew "Yeshua" became "Jesus" to the Greeks, "Het Ka Ptah" became "Aigyptus" which became "Egyptus." If you go to Egypt today they don't call it "Egypt."
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
The content of the Book of Abraham is essentially one hundred percent accounted for by Joseph Smith’s use of five, nineteenth-century sources. All of this evidence is detailed in An Insiders View of Mormon Origins, chapter 1: • Abraham 1; Facsimile #1, #3: Abraham’s biographical information in Abraham 1 and Smith’s claim of what these two Facsimile pictures portray comes from The Works of Flavius Josephus. Smith owned an 1830 edition of this book. Smith’s detailed explanations for the individual Egyptian characters on these two Facsimiles in the Book of Abraham have been thoroughly discredited by Egyptologists.
• Abraham 2, 4-5: Eighty-six percent of the verses in these three chapters came from Genesis, 1, 2, 12, and 11:28-29. This material came from a 1769 edition or later printing of the KJV, including its errors.
• Abraham 3; Facsimile 2: The text of Abraham 3 and Facsimile 2 has some remarkable resemblances to the astronomical concepts, phrases, and other motifs found in Thomas Dick’s, Philosophy of a Future State. Smith owned an 1830 copy of this book.
• Abraham 3; Facsimile 2: Thomas Taylor’s 1816 book, The Six Books of Proclus on the Theology of Plato, especially volume 2, also has most of the motifs in Abraham 3 and Facsimile 2. Dick and Taylor both contain a number of exact phrases found in Abraham 3 and Facsimile 2. Importantly, Smith’s Newtonian astronomy concepts, mechanics, and model of the universe that he borrowed from these Newtonian books have been thoroughly discredited by Einstein’s twentieth-century model of the universe.
• Strange names: The few Hebrew names and phrases found in the Book of Abraham reflect Smith’s study with Hebrew scholar Joshua Seixas during the winter of 1835-36, in Ohio.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Critic's response.
The preface to every copy of the canonized Book of Abraham makes it very clear that that it was actually written by Abraham upon papyrus.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Critic's response.
The problem is that a critical part of the Book of Abraham text is focused on Abraham almost being sacrificed by the Egyptians. The text in the Book of Abraham refers to the facsimile. If you take away the knife then you take away the story. We wonder how the Book of Abraham might be different if facsimile 1 was complete when given to Joseph and if it did not show the knife that Egyptologists believe was not there originally.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary