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|claim=Joseph of course translated the Book of Mormon from Reformed Egyptian and he also translated the Book of Abraham from Egyptian papyri so he apparently knew Egyptian well enough to translate it... | |claim=Joseph of course translated the Book of Mormon from Reformed Egyptian and he also translated the Book of Abraham from Egyptian papyri so he apparently knew Egyptian well enough to translate it... | ||
|think= | |think= | ||
* The Nephite authors insisted that their "Reformed Egyptian" had been so altered over 1000 years of separation from the Old World that "none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof" ({{s||Mormon|9|34}}). | |||
* Joseph's ability to translate had nothing to do with "knowing a language," but was done (as he always insisted) "by the gift and power of God." He was not a translator in the academic on intellectual sense. | |||
|quote= | |quote= | ||
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Revision as of 17:24, 1 May 2012
A FAIR Analysis of: MormonThink A work by author: Anonymous
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A FAIR Analysis of MormonThink page "The Greek Psalter Translation"
FAIRMORMON'S VIEW OF THE CRITICS' CONCLUSIONS
The positions that this MormonThink article appears to take are the following:
FAIRMORMON'S RESPONSE AND SUPPORTING DATA
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
The most notable translation is of course the Book of Mormon. As the angel took back the gold plates from which the BOM was translated, there really is nothing to look at to determine the accuracy of Joseph's translating ability of the BOM.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
However, since Joseph translated some other documents as well, it's prudent to examine whatever source documents that may exist for those translations. If it can be proved that Joseph translated other ancient documents correctly, when he would have no knowledge of how to do so, it would go a long way to help validate Joseph's ability as a seer and translator.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Joseph of course translated the Book of Mormon from Reformed Egyptian and he also translated the Book of Abraham from Egyptian papyri so he apparently knew Egyptian well enough to translate it...
FairMormon commentary
- The Nephite authors insisted that their "Reformed Egyptian" had been so altered over 1000 years of separation from the Old World that "none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof" (Mormon 9꞉34).
- Joseph's ability to translate had nothing to do with "knowing a language," but was done (as he always insisted) "by the gift and power of God." He was not a translator in the academic on intellectual sense.
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Joseph examined the ancient document and replied that it was a Dictionary of Ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphics. Professor Caswall of course knew Joseph was wrong as this was a known Greek Psalter and definitely not Egyptian. Professor Caswall then informed the Prophet that it was but a plain Greek Psalter. Joseph then left the scene.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Henry Caswall's experience with Joseph Smith at Nauvoo on 18-19 April 1842 expresses the frustration of an increasing number of LDS students with Joseph's ability to translate ancient documents.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
We regret that we could not find this issue discussed in any church publication or web site. However we found several responses from LDS apologists and LDS leaders which we cite below. Per the Neal A. Maxwell Institute...
FairMormon commentary
- The Neal A. Maxwell institute is sponsored by the Church.
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Critic's response. We support professor Caswall's response to Joseph's error: "Whether he spoke as a prophet or as a mere man, he has committed himself, for he has said what is not true. If he spoke as a prophet, therefore, he is a false prophet. If he spoke as a mere man, he cannot be trusted, for he spoke positively and like an oracle respecting that which he knew nothing." When Joseph speaks and leads others to assume he is speaking as a prophet then he needs to be accountable for what he says. It's very convenient to say Joseph speaks as a man whenever he's proved wrong and as a prophet whenever his statements can't be proven right or wrong or haven't been proven one way or the other yet.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Joseph Smith did the exact same thing with the Greek Psalter that he did with the Book of Abraham papyri and the Kinderhook Plates. He saw an ancient document, one that he assumed no one in the world could translate and he said that he could translate it and he said what it was. And he was just as wrong with the Greek Psalter as he was with the Book of Abraham papyri and the Kinderhook plates.
FairMormon commentary
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
If this was the only translation issue that was damaging to the prophet then we would dismiss it as it wasn't really a translation even if Joseph was in error as to the identification of the document.
However given the more substantial translation problems identified by critics with the Book of Abraham, Kinderhook Plates and the Joseph Smith translation of the Bible, the Greek Psalter incident needs to be scrutinized as well to look for any evidence that Joseph was really an accurate seer and translator.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
If Joseph really translated the Book of Mormon from reformed Egyptian characters and if he really translated the Book of Abraham from Egyptian papyri then he would know what Egyptian characters are and what they meant.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Although the Greek Psalter incident is the translation effort with the least amount of significance, it further damages Joseph's claims to be a true seer. It's hard for many of us that have analyzed the accounts of all of the ancient writings that Joseph claimed to have translated to accept the fact that all of Joseph's translations that can be proven as accurate have all been proven to be incorrect. If nothing else, it was another opportunity for Joseph to prove himself to be a seer but he did not.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
There is a difference between an isolated incident and a pattern. The Greek Psalter, Book of Abraham, Kinderhook Plates, and some would add the Book of Mormon (DNA evidence, anachronisms, lack of archaeological, anthropological, cultural, linguistic, and metallurgical evidence to support claims), reveal a disturbing pattern in Joseph Smith's methods and perhaps his character. The testimony of his mother about his ability to spontaneously make up stories about ancient inhabitants of the Americas and the story he told about Zelph the White Lamanite while on the Zion's Camp March to Missouri are consistent with this pattern
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary