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Countercult ministries/Watchman Fellowship/Section 10: Difference between revisions
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{{FAIRAnalysisHeader | {{FAIRAnalysisHeader | ||
|title=Watchman Fellowship | |title=Watchman Fellowship | ||
|author= | |author=Tim Oliver | ||
|noauthor= | |noauthor= | ||
|section=[[../|Index]], Claims in "Testing the Book of Mormon by Moroni 10:4" | |section=[[../|Index]], Claims in "Testing the Book of Mormon by Moroni 10:4" | ||
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{{IndexClaim | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
Moroni 10:4 directs one to ascertain truth and gain knowledge by a method and a standard nowhere recommended in the Bible. To the contrary, the Bible teaches that the standard by which the truth of anything is to be known is the scriptures. Source: Luke 24:27; Acts 17:11; Rom. 15:4; 2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Peter 1:3. | |||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
* | * | ||
|response= | |response= | ||
*{{Detail|}} | *The author accuses the Book of Mormon of employing circular reasoning, yet uses the same argument to support the Bible! | ||
**The author claims that the the truth of anything is to be known by using the standard of the scriptures: the Bible. | |||
**The author claims that the Book of Mormon (Latter-day Saint scripture) ''cannot'' be proven by any test of its own devising. | |||
*The Bible ''does'' tell us how to gain knowledge, and it is a scripture that Joseph Smith himself noted: | |||
<blockquote> | |||
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. ({{s||James|1|5-6}}) | |||
</blockquote> | |||
*{{Detail|Book of Mormon/Moroni's promise|l1=Moroni's promise}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
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{{IndexClaim | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
“Moroni 10:4 is not so much of a promise as it is a manipulative device” because if one allows that the verse may be true, then the only possible explanation for failing to obtain the result promised means that “one must lack a sincere heart, and/or real intent, and/or faith in Christ.” | |||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
* | * | ||
|response= | |response= | ||
*{{Detail|}} | *We once again refer to the Bible for a response to this assertion. This time we emphasize the important part: | ||
<blockquote> | |||
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. '''But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering.''' For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.'' ({{s||James|1|5-6}}) {{ea}} | |||
</blockquote> | |||
*{{Detail|Book of Mormon/Moroni's promise|l1=Moroni's promise}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
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{{IndexClaim | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
There being no Biblical warrant for proceeding as Moroni 10:4 directs, one cannot do so without invalidating the sincerity upon which the answer depends. | |||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
* | * | ||
|response= | |response= | ||
*{{Detail|}} | *There ''is'' a Biblical warrant for proceeding as Moroni 10:4 directs. One more time: | ||
<blockquote> | |||
'''If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God,''' that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; '''and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering.''' For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.'' ({{s||James|1|5-6}}) {{ea}} | |||
</blockquote> | |||
*{{Detail|Book of Mormon/Moroni's promise|l1=Moroni's promise}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
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{{IndexClaim | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
Because the Book of Mormon cannot be proven by any test of its own devising (it must be tested by the Bible), Moroni 10:4 itself, weighed in the balance and found wanting, is sufficient evidence to prove the Book of Mormon false. | |||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
* | * | ||
|response= | |response= | ||
*{{Detail|}} | *This is simply bizarre reasoning. | ||
*{{Detail|Book of Mormon/Moroni's promise|l1=Moroni's promise}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
Revision as of 04:36, 10 March 2010
| Section 9 | A FAIR Analysis of: Watchman Fellowship A work by author: Tim Oliver
|
Index of Claims in "Testing the Book of Mormon by Moroni 10:4"
Claim
Moroni 10:4 directs one to ascertain truth and gain knowledge by a method and a standard nowhere recommended in the Bible. To the contrary, the Bible teaches that the standard by which the truth of anything is to be known is the scriptures. Source: Luke 24:27; Acts 17:11; Rom. 15:4; 2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Peter 1:3.
Author's source(s)
Response
- The author accuses the Book of Mormon of employing circular reasoning, yet uses the same argument to support the Bible!
- The author claims that the the truth of anything is to be known by using the standard of the scriptures: the Bible.
- The author claims that the Book of Mormon (Latter-day Saint scripture) cannot be proven by any test of its own devising.
- The Bible does tell us how to gain knowledge, and it is a scripture that Joseph Smith himself noted:
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. (James 1꞉5-6)
- For a detailed response, see: Moroni's promise
Claim
“Moroni 10:4 is not so much of a promise as it is a manipulative device” because if one allows that the verse may be true, then the only possible explanation for failing to obtain the result promised means that “one must lack a sincere heart, and/or real intent, and/or faith in Christ.”
Author's source(s)
Response
- We once again refer to the Bible for a response to this assertion. This time we emphasize the important part:
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. (James 1꞉5-6) (emphasis added)
- For a detailed response, see: Moroni's promise
Claim
There being no Biblical warrant for proceeding as Moroni 10:4 directs, one cannot do so without invalidating the sincerity upon which the answer depends.
Author's source(s)
Response
- There is a Biblical warrant for proceeding as Moroni 10:4 directs. One more time:
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. (James 1꞉5-6) (emphasis added)
- For a detailed response, see: Moroni's promise
Claim
Because the Book of Mormon cannot be proven by any test of its own devising (it must be tested by the Bible), Moroni 10:4 itself, weighed in the balance and found wanting, is sufficient evidence to prove the Book of Mormon false.
Author's source(s)
Response
- This is simply bizarre reasoning.
- For a detailed response, see: Moroni's promise