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Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church/Chapter 2: Difference between revisions
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===Claims made in "Chapter 2: Race Relations in Colonial America"=== | ===Claims made in "Chapter 2: Race Relations in Colonial America"=== | ||
====17==== | ====17==== | ||
| | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |||
* A similarity exists between the degraded Lamanites and the Native Americans of the 19th Century. | * A similarity exists between the degraded Lamanites and the Native Americans of the 19th Century. | ||
| | |response= | ||
* Note again only a dated anti-Mormon work is cited for this claim. No engagement with the large body of work done in response to Brodie is cited or engaged. | * Note again only a dated anti-Mormon work is cited for this claim. No engagement with the large body of work done in response to Brodie is cited or engaged. | ||
* [[Amerindians | * [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Relationship to Amerindians]] | ||
| | |authorsources= | ||
*{{CriticalWork:Brodie:No Man Knows|pages=no pages given}} | *{{CriticalWork:Brodie:No Man Knows|pages=no pages given}} | ||
}} | |||
====22==== | ====22==== | ||
| | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |||
* The Book of Mormon portrays the Lamanites as naked, head shaven, tent dwelling, arrow wielding and idle, similar to stereotypical perceptions of the Native Americans at the time. | * The Book of Mormon portrays the Lamanites as naked, head shaven, tent dwelling, arrow wielding and idle, similar to stereotypical perceptions of the Native Americans at the time. | ||
| | |response= | ||
* [[Amerindians | * [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Relationship to Amerindians]] | ||
| | |authorsources= | ||
*No source given. | *No source given. | ||
}} | |||
====22==== | ====22==== | ||
| | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |||
* Joseph Smith may have woven "frontier prejudices" into the Book of Mormon. | * Joseph Smith may have woven "frontier prejudices" into the Book of Mormon. | ||
| | |response= | ||
* {{MindReading}} | * {{MindReading}} | ||
* The author needs to present actual evidence. In fact, the Book of Mormon sees the Lamanites as the equals of others, descendants of Israel, and blessed by God. This is a far cry from the frontier prejudice, where often "the only good Indian was a dead Indian." | * The author needs to present actual evidence. In fact, the Book of Mormon sees the Lamanites as the equals of others, descendants of Israel, and blessed by God. This is a far cry from the frontier prejudice, where often "the only good Indian was a dead Indian." | ||
| | |authorsources= | ||
* No source given. | * No source given. | ||
}} | |||
====27==== | ====27==== | ||
| | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |||
* Joseph Smith "fell under the spell of the mounds and could not resist the lure of buried riches." | * Joseph Smith "fell under the spell of the mounds and could not resist the lure of buried riches." | ||
| | |response= | ||
* {{MindReading}} | * {{MindReading}} | ||
* [[Book of Mormon | * [[Book of Mormon/Geography/New World/Great Lakes geography/Mound Builders]] | ||
| | |authorsources= | ||
*Silverberg, ''The Mound Builders'', 1968. | *Silverberg, ''The Mound Builders'', 1968. | ||
*{{CriticalWork:Vogel:Indian Origins|pages=no pages cited}} | *{{CriticalWork:Vogel:Indian Origins|pages=no pages cited}} | ||
*Brodie, ''No Man Knows My History'', 1971. | *Brodie, ''No Man Knows My History'', 1971. | ||
}} | |||
====27==== | ====27==== | ||
| | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |||
* Joseph Smith used a "seer stone" or "peep stone" to search for buried treasure. | * Joseph Smith used a "seer stone" or "peep stone" to search for buried treasure. | ||
| | |response= | ||
* [[Joseph Smith | * [[Joseph Smith/Seer stones]] | ||
| | |authorsources= | ||
*No source given. | *No source given. | ||
}} | |||
====27==== | ====27==== | ||
| | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |||
* Joseph Smith was charged with being "disorderly" for his money digging activities in 1826. | * Joseph Smith was charged with being "disorderly" for his money digging activities in 1826. | ||
| | |response= | ||
* [[Joseph Smith | * [[Joseph Smith/Legal trials/1826 glasslooking trial]] | ||
| | |authorsources= | ||
*No source given. | *No source given. | ||
}} | |||
====28==== | ====28==== | ||
| | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |||
* Scholars have "concluded" that Joseph Smith was inspired by ''View of the Hebrews''. | * Scholars have "concluded" that Joseph Smith was inspired by ''View of the Hebrews''. | ||
| | |response= | ||
* Critics of the Church have concluded this, after their favorite theory ([[Book_of_Mormon_and_Spaulding_manuscript|the Spalding manuscript]]) disintegrated in the early twentieth century. | * Critics of the Church have concluded this, after their favorite theory ([[Book_of_Mormon_and_Spaulding_manuscript|the Spalding manuscript]]) disintegrated in the early twentieth century. | ||
* {{CiteCritic}} | * {{CiteCritic}} | ||
* [[Book of Mormon | * [[Book of Mormon/Authorship theories/View of the Hebrews]] | ||
| | |authorsources= | ||
*Persuitte, 2000. | *Persuitte, 2000. | ||
}} | |||
====28==== | ====28==== | ||
| | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |||
* The New World history in ''View of the Hebrews'' "shares close parallels with the plot of the Book of Mormon." | * The New World history in ''View of the Hebrews'' "shares close parallels with the plot of the Book of Mormon." | ||
| | |response= | ||
* {{SecondaryFact}}: the author cites only Ethan Smith's book, who says nothing about whether his book matches the Book of Mormon. | * {{SecondaryFact}}: the author cites only Ethan Smith's book, who says nothing about whether his book matches the Book of Mormon. | ||
* [[ | * [[Book of Mormon/Authorship theories/View of the Hebrews/Unparallels|"Unparallels" with ''View of the Hebrews'']] | ||
* [[Book of Mormon and View of the Hebrews]] | * [[Book of Mormon and View of the Hebrews]] | ||
| | |authorsources= | ||
*Ethan Smith, ''View of the Hebrews'', 1825. | *Ethan Smith, ''View of the Hebrews'', 1825. | ||
}} | |||
====29==== | ====29==== | ||
| | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |||
* Joseph Smith was inspired by the myths surrounding the Moundbuilders in writing the Book of Mormon. | * Joseph Smith was inspired by the myths surrounding the Moundbuilders in writing the Book of Mormon. | ||
| | |response= | ||
* {{MindReading}} | * {{MindReading}} | ||
* [[Book of Mormon | * [[Book of Mormon/Geography/New World/Great Lakes geography/Mound Builders]] | ||
| | |authorsources= | ||
*Brodie, ''No Man Knows My History'', 1971. | *Brodie, ''No Man Knows My History'', 1971. | ||
}} | |||
====30==== | ====30==== | ||
| | {{IndexClaim | ||
* Joseph "likely" added the story of the Jaredites to account for the speculation about the diversity of Indian cultures and languages. | |claim= | ||
| | * The author claims that Joseph "likely" added the story of the Jaredites to account for the speculation about the diversity of Indian cultures and languages. | ||
|response= | |||
* {{MindReading}} | * {{MindReading}} | ||
* We are told earlier that Joseph mirrored frontier prejudices. Yet, Vogel's book demonstrates that early settlers had little appreciation of the diversity of Amerindian culture. They regarded Amerindians as a monolithic group. These two claims do not mesh. | * We are told earlier that Joseph mirrored frontier prejudices. Yet, Vogel's book demonstrates that early settlers had little appreciation of the diversity of Amerindian culture. They regarded Amerindians as a monolithic group. These two claims do not mesh. | ||
* [[Jaredites added to | * [[Book of Mormon/Anachronisms/Story of Jaredites added to explain presence of animals in New World]] {{nw}} | ||
| | |authorsources= | ||
* {{s||Ether|2|1-3}} | * {{s||Ether|2|1-3}} | ||
}} | |||
====30==== | ====30==== | ||
| | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |||
* Joseph "likely" added the story of the Jaredites to account for how animals arrived in the New World after the Flood. | * Joseph "likely" added the story of the Jaredites to account for how animals arrived in the New World after the Flood. | ||
| | |response= | ||
* {{MindReading}} | * {{MindReading}} | ||
* [[Story of Jaredites added to explain presence of animals in New World]] | * [[Book of Mormon/Anachronisms/Story of Jaredites added to explain presence of animals in New World]] | ||
{{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Flood}} | {{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Flood}} | ||
| | |authorsources= | ||
*{{s||Ether|2|1-3}} | *{{s||Ether|2|1-3}} | ||
*No additional source is given by the author for this claim. | *No additional source is given by the author for this claim. | ||
*The same exact claim is made by {{CriticalWork:Brodie:No Man Knows|pages=70–72}} | *The same exact claim is made by {{CriticalWork:Brodie:No Man Knows|pages=70–72}} | ||
}} | |||
Revision as of 02:42, 17 February 2010
| Chapter 1 | A FAIR Analysis of: Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church A work by author: Simon G. Southerton
|
Chapter 3 |
Claims made in "Chapter 2: Race Relations in Colonial America"
17
Claim
- A similarity exists between the degraded Lamanites and the Native Americans of the 19th Century.
Author's source(s)
- Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1945), no pages given. ( Index of claims )
Response
- Note again only a dated anti-Mormon work is cited for this claim. No engagement with the large body of work done in response to Brodie is cited or engaged.
- Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Relationship to Amerindians
22
Claim
- The Book of Mormon portrays the Lamanites as naked, head shaven, tent dwelling, arrow wielding and idle, similar to stereotypical perceptions of the Native Americans at the time.
Author's source(s)
- No source given.
Response
22
Claim
- Joseph Smith may have woven "frontier prejudices" into the Book of Mormon.
Author's source(s)
- No source given.
Response
- Mind reading: author has no way of knowing this.
- The author needs to present actual evidence. In fact, the Book of Mormon sees the Lamanites as the equals of others, descendants of Israel, and blessed by God. This is a far cry from the frontier prejudice, where often "the only good Indian was a dead Indian."
27
Claim
- Joseph Smith "fell under the spell of the mounds and could not resist the lure of buried riches."
Author's source(s)
- Silverberg, The Mound Builders, 1968.
- Dan Vogel, Indian Origins and the Book of Mormon: Religious Solutions from Columbus to Joseph Smith (Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Book, 1986), no pages cited.
- Brodie, No Man Knows My History, 1971.
Response
- Mind reading: author has no way of knowing this.
- Book of Mormon/Geography/New World/Great Lakes geography/Mound Builders
27
Claim
- Joseph Smith used a "seer stone" or "peep stone" to search for buried treasure.
Author's source(s)
- No source given.
Response
27
Claim
- Joseph Smith was charged with being "disorderly" for his money digging activities in 1826.
Author's source(s)
- No source given.
Response
28
Claim
- Scholars have "concluded" that Joseph Smith was inspired by View of the Hebrews.
Author's source(s)
- Persuitte, 2000.
Response
- Critics of the Church have concluded this, after their favorite theory (the Spalding manuscript) disintegrated in the early twentieth century.
- Only critical work is cited; no engagement with LDS scholarship on the topic occurs.
- Book of Mormon/Authorship theories/View of the Hebrews
28
Author's source(s)
- Ethan Smith, View of the Hebrews, 1825.
Response
- Quotes another author's opinion as if it were fact: the author cites only Ethan Smith's book, who says nothing about whether his book matches the Book of Mormon.
- "Unparallels" with View of the Hebrews
- Book of Mormon and View of the Hebrews
29
Claim
- Joseph Smith was inspired by the myths surrounding the Moundbuilders in writing the Book of Mormon.
Author's source(s)
- Brodie, No Man Knows My History, 1971.
Response
- Mind reading: author has no way of knowing this.
- Book of Mormon/Geography/New World/Great Lakes geography/Mound Builders
30
Claim
- The author claims that Joseph "likely" added the story of the Jaredites to account for the speculation about the diversity of Indian cultures and languages.
Author's source(s)
Response
- Mind reading: author has no way of knowing this.
- We are told earlier that Joseph mirrored frontier prejudices. Yet, Vogel's book demonstrates that early settlers had little appreciation of the diversity of Amerindian culture. They regarded Amerindians as a monolithic group. These two claims do not mesh.
- Book of Mormon/Anachronisms/Story of Jaredites added to explain presence of animals in New World [needs work]
30
Claim
- Joseph "likely" added the story of the Jaredites to account for how animals arrived in the New World after the Flood.
Author's source(s)
- Ether 2꞉1-3
- No additional source is given by the author for this claim.
- The same exact claim is made by Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1945), 70–72. ( Index of claims )
Response
- Mind reading: author has no way of knowing this.
- Book of Mormon/Anachronisms/Story of Jaredites added to explain presence of animals in New World
Logical Fallacy: Composition—The author assumes that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some part of the whole.
The Church has no official position on the extent of Noah's Flood. Just because some members and leaders believe that the Flood was global in scope does not mean that everyone believes it.