
FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
(→145: fix link) |
(mod) |
||
Line 31: | Line 31: | ||
*Even without having sought out the original text, they could have determined the incorrect judgment they made of President Benson's position. They could have quoted from the same volume the quotation immediately preceding the one they cited: "In Gethsemane and on Calvary, He worked out the infinite and eternal atonement. It was the greatest single act of love in recorded history. Thus He became our Redeemer." {{ref|101.140-141-2}} | *Even without having sought out the original text, they could have determined the incorrect judgment they made of President Benson's position. They could have quoted from the same volume the quotation immediately preceding the one they cited: "In Gethsemane and on Calvary, He worked out the infinite and eternal atonement. It was the greatest single act of love in recorded history. Thus He became our Redeemer." {{ref|101.140-141-2}} | ||
*The atonement is clearly defined as having encompassed both the Garden and the cross. The cross is not in the least devalued or neglected. Had there been no death on the cross, whatever it was that happened in the Garden would have been superfluous. With the cross, the events in the Garden have meaning and significance. | *The atonement is clearly defined as having encompassed both the Garden and the cross. The cross is not in the least devalued or neglected. Had there been no death on the cross, whatever it was that happened in the Garden would have been superfluous. With the cross, the events in the Garden have meaning and significance. | ||
*{{Detail|Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
===140-148=== | ===140-148=== | ||
Line 40: | Line 41: | ||
*Despite the ambiguity of these statements the authors rather strangely write that "if Mormons doubt that their church emphasizes the importance of Gethsemane today" they should consider a statement from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, which they then quote. Again, this statement indicates that it took place "primarily" in the Garden. Even though the two passages quoted from Elders Benson and McConkie are unequivocal about the significance of the Garden for the atonement, all the other LDS passages quoted by the authors are just the opposite: they are totally equivocal. And for good reason: the Latter-day Saint leaders, including the two they cite, do not in any way restrict the atoning sacrifice of our Savior to the Garden. But they definitely consider the atonement to have had its beginning there. | *Despite the ambiguity of these statements the authors rather strangely write that "if Mormons doubt that their church emphasizes the importance of Gethsemane today" they should consider a statement from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, which they then quote. Again, this statement indicates that it took place "primarily" in the Garden. Even though the two passages quoted from Elders Benson and McConkie are unequivocal about the significance of the Garden for the atonement, all the other LDS passages quoted by the authors are just the opposite: they are totally equivocal. And for good reason: the Latter-day Saint leaders, including the two they cite, do not in any way restrict the atoning sacrifice of our Savior to the Garden. But they definitely consider the atonement to have had its beginning there. | ||
*The authors write that the Garden of Gethsemane is only mentioned twice in the scriptures, apparently to suggest that anything mentioned so infrequently must not be of much value. They need to realize that the concept that "the Word was made flesh" is mentioned only once; would they therefore reject its significance also? {{ref|lossky.24}}Is it insignificant that 'Calvary' occurs only at Luke 23.33, and that there is absolutely no warrant for it in the Greek? {{ref|plummer.530}} It is also significant, as Leon Morris has written, "to find that, apart from the crucifixion narrative [in the Gospels]…Paul is the only New Testament writer to speak about 'the cross.'" {{ref|morris.216}} Furthermore, a recent addition to the literature about the cross in the New Testament points out that even in Paul it is not used frequently. His first two letters, the two to the Thessalonians, make no mention of the cross or the crucifixion. Nor do the last three letters make any reference to the cross (i.e., II Corinthians, Romans, and II Timothy). {{ref|murphy.21}} Murphy-O'Connor refers to nine "fragments of traditional teaching" which appear in Paul's letters. These help to determine "the common doctrinal base that Paul shared with the rest of the early church… Not a single one of these formulae that he inherited from his Christian environment mentions the crucifixion." Our source goes on to indicate that only two of them "formally state that he died." Therefore, in the others it must be inferred by the fact that He was resurrected from the dead. {{ref|murphy.24}} | *The authors write that the Garden of Gethsemane is only mentioned twice in the scriptures, apparently to suggest that anything mentioned so infrequently must not be of much value. They need to realize that the concept that "the Word was made flesh" is mentioned only once; would they therefore reject its significance also? {{ref|lossky.24}}Is it insignificant that 'Calvary' occurs only at Luke 23.33, and that there is absolutely no warrant for it in the Greek? {{ref|plummer.530}} It is also significant, as Leon Morris has written, "to find that, apart from the crucifixion narrative [in the Gospels]…Paul is the only New Testament writer to speak about 'the cross.'" {{ref|morris.216}} Furthermore, a recent addition to the literature about the cross in the New Testament points out that even in Paul it is not used frequently. His first two letters, the two to the Thessalonians, make no mention of the cross or the crucifixion. Nor do the last three letters make any reference to the cross (i.e., II Corinthians, Romans, and II Timothy). {{ref|murphy.21}} Murphy-O'Connor refers to nine "fragments of traditional teaching" which appear in Paul's letters. These help to determine "the common doctrinal base that Paul shared with the rest of the early church… Not a single one of these formulae that he inherited from his Christian environment mentions the crucifixion." Our source goes on to indicate that only two of them "formally state that he died." Therefore, in the others it must be inferred by the fact that He was resurrected from the dead. {{ref|murphy.24}} | ||
*{{Detail|Jesus Christ/Atonement/ | *{{Detail|Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross|Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross/Quotes}} | ||
}} | }} | ||
===141=== | ===141=== | ||
Line 60: | Line 61: | ||
* "Behold [the Holy Messiah] offereth himself a sacrifice for sin." ({{s|2|Nephi|2|6–9}}) | * "Behold [the Holy Messiah] offereth himself a sacrifice for sin." ({{s|2|Nephi|2|6–9}}) | ||
* "as in Adam, or by nature, they fall, even so the blood of Christ atoneth for their sins… There shall be no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come unto the children of men, only in and through the name of Christ… Salvation was, and is, and is to come, in and through the atoning blood of Christ." ({{s||Mosiah|3|16–19}}) | * "as in Adam, or by nature, they fall, even so the blood of Christ atoneth for their sins… There shall be no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come unto the children of men, only in and through the name of Christ… Salvation was, and is, and is to come, in and through the atoning blood of Christ." ({{s||Mosiah|3|16–19}}) | ||
*{{Detail|Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
Line 79: | Line 81: | ||
|response= | |response= | ||
*This quotation is meant by the authors to indicate that the LDS teaching on the atonement is that it took place "primarily in the garden." What they fail to do, however, is read further into the talk given by Elder Snow. He stated in the same talk that "when Jesus went through that terrible torture on the cross, He saw what would be accomplished by it; He saw that His brethren and sisters—the sons and daughters of God—would be gathered in, with but few exceptions—those who committed the unpardonable sin. That sacrifice of the divine Being was effectual to destroy the powers of Satan." {{ref|collected.364}} Clearly the cross was important in President Snow's soteriology. | *This quotation is meant by the authors to indicate that the LDS teaching on the atonement is that it took place "primarily in the garden." What they fail to do, however, is read further into the talk given by Elder Snow. He stated in the same talk that "when Jesus went through that terrible torture on the cross, He saw what would be accomplished by it; He saw that His brethren and sisters—the sons and daughters of God—would be gathered in, with but few exceptions—those who committed the unpardonable sin. That sacrifice of the divine Being was effectual to destroy the powers of Satan." {{ref|collected.364}} Clearly the cross was important in President Snow's soteriology. | ||
*{{Detail|Jesus Christ/Atonement/ | *{{Detail|Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross}} | ||
}} | }} | ||
Line 98: | Line 100: | ||
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
*D&C 45:3–4 has the Lord speaking: "Listen to him who is the advocate with the Father, who is pleading your cause before him—saying: 'Father, behold the sufferings and death of him who did no sin, in whom thou wast well pleased; behold the blood of thy Son which was shed, the blood of him whom thou gavest that thy self might be glorified.'" There are many other statements regarding the shedding of Christ's blood, and its relationship to His redeeming sacrifice. | *D&C 45:3–4 has the Lord speaking: "Listen to him who is the advocate with the Father, who is pleading your cause before him—saying: 'Father, behold the sufferings and death of him who did no sin, in whom thou wast well pleased; behold the blood of thy Son which was shed, the blood of him whom thou gavest that thy self might be glorified.'" There are many other statements regarding the shedding of Christ's blood, and its relationship to His redeeming sacrifice. | ||
*{{Detail | *{{Detail|Jesus Christ/Atonement/Quotes}} All the these statements from scripture and prophets ought to convince even the most casual observer that the Latter-day Saints do indeed believe that the death of Jesus Christ on the cross was a major component of the redemption wrought by our Savior. It should also be evident that the shedding of His blood was an integral part of that atoning sacrifice. | ||
}} | }} | ||
Line 109: | Line 111: | ||
*What the authors fail to quote is the rest of the talk, wherein he states that "we cannot of ourselves, no matter how we may try, rid ourselves of the stain which is upon us as a result of our own transgressions. That stain must be washed away by the blood of the Redeemer." {{ref|101.147}} | *What the authors fail to quote is the rest of the talk, wherein he states that "we cannot of ourselves, no matter how we may try, rid ourselves of the stain which is upon us as a result of our own transgressions. That stain must be washed away by the blood of the Redeemer." {{ref|101.147}} | ||
*Three years previously Elder Romney stated, "through repentance he may bring himself within the reach of the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, so that thereby he may be cleansed from the effects of his transgressions and obtain forgiveness of them." {{ref|conf.84}} | *Three years previously Elder Romney stated, "through repentance he may bring himself within the reach of the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, so that thereby he may be cleansed from the effects of his transgressions and obtain forgiveness of them." {{ref|conf.84}} | ||
*{{Detail|Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
Chapter 9: D&C and Pearl of Gt Price | A FAIR Analysis of: Criticism of Mormonism/Books A work by author: Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson
|
Chapter 11: Grace and Works |
This is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me. And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross. (3 Nephi 27:13–4)
Response
Response
Response
Response
In some way, incomprehensible to us, Gethsemane, the cross, and the empty tomb join into one grand and eternal drama, in the course of which Jesus abolishes death, and out of which comes immortality for all and eternal life for the righteous. [8]
As I understand it, our mission to the world in this day, is to testify of Jesus Christ. Our mission is to bear record that he is the Son of the Living God and that he was crucified for the sins of the world; that salvation was, and is, and is to come, in and through his atoning blood… We believe that he came into the world with the express mission of dying upon the cross for the sins of the world; that he is, actually, literally, and really the Redeemer of the world and the Savior of men; and that by the shedding of his blood he has offered to all men forgiveness of sins conditioned upon their repentance and obedience to the gospel plan. [11]
Response
The time approached that He was to pass through the severest affliction that any mortal ever did pass through. He undoubtedly had seen persons nailed to the cross, because that method of execution was common at that time, and He understood the torture that such persons experienced for hours. He went by Himself in the garden and prayed to His Father, if it were possible, that this cup might pass from Him; and His feelings were such that He sweat great drops of blood, and in His agony there was an angel sent to give Him comfort and strength. [14]
Response
Response
Even the sacrament prayer for the administration of the water affirms the symbolism of the atoning blood. It states in part: "…bless and sanctify this water to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them." [19]
wanted Trypho and his friends to understand that the prophetic Spirit could and did speak "as if the passion has already occurred" Sometimes, he explained, the prophetic Spirit "has spoken concerning the things that are going to occur, uttering them as if at that time they were occurring or even had occurred." [20]
Response
Response
Template code | Inserts this reference | Click to edit |
---|---|---|
{{To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition}} | To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition | edit |
{{To learn more box:''Under the Banner of Heaven''}} | To learn more about responses to: Under the Banner of Heaven | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Robert Price}} | To learn more about responses to: Robert Price | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon}} | To learn more about responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ashamed of Joseph}} | To learn more about responses to: Ashamed of Joseph | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Moser}} | To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Moser | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Parrish}} | To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Parrish | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Benjamin Park}} | To learn more about responses to: Benjamin Park | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith}} | To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Book of Mormon}} | To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Book of Mormon | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: ''Big Love''}} | To learn more about responses to: Big Love | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Brett Metcalfe}} | To learn more about responses to: Brett Metcalfe | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bill Maher}} | To learn more about responses to: Bill Maher | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bruce H. Porter}} | To learn more about responses to: Bruce H. Porter | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Carol Wang Shutter}} | To learn more about responses to: Carol Wang Shutter | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: CES Letter}} | To learn more about responses to: CES Letter | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Charles Larson}} | To learn more about responses to: Charles Larson | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Christopher Nemelka}} | To learn more about responses to: Christopher Nemelka | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Colby Townshed}} | To learn more about responses to: Colby Townshed | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Contender Ministries}} | To learn more about responses to: Contender Ministries | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Crane and Crane}} | To learn more about responses to: Crane and Crane | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: D. Michael Quinn}} | To learn more about responses to: D. Michael Quinn | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Dan Vogel}} | To learn more about responses to: Dan Vogel | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: David John Buerger}} | To learn more about responses to: David John Buerger | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: David Persuitte}} | To learn more about responses to: David Persuitte | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Denver Snuffer}} | To learn more about responses to: Denver Snuffer | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Dick Bauer}} | To learn more about responses to: Dick Bauer | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Duwayne R Anderson}} | To learn more about responses to: Duwayne R Anderson | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Earl Wunderli}} | To learn more about responses to: Earl Wunderli | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ed Decker}} | To learn more about responses to: Ed Decker | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Erikson and Giesler}} | To learn more about responses to: Erikson and Giesler | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ernest Taves}} | To learn more about responses to: Ernest Taves | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Fawn Brodie}} | To learn more about responses to: Fawn Brodie | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: George D Smith}} | To learn more about responses to: George D Smith | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Grant Palmer}} | To learn more about responses to: Grant Palmer | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Hank Hanegraaff}} | To learn more about responses to: Hank Hanegraaff | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Hurlbut-Howe}} | To learn more about responses to: Hurlbut-Howe | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: James Brooke}} | To learn more about responses to: James Brooke | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: James Spencer}} | To learn more about responses to: James Spencer | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: James White}} | To learn more about responses to: James White | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Jerald and Sandra Tanner}} | To learn more about responses to: Jerald and Sandra Tanner | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Jesus Christ-Joseph Smith or Search for the Truth DVD}} | To learn more about responses to: Jesus Christ-Joseph Smith or Search for the Truth DVD | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: John Dehlin}} | To learn more about responses to: John Dehlin | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Jonathan Neville}} | To learn more about responses to: Jonathan Neville | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Kurt Van Gorden}} | To learn more about responses to: Kurt Van Gorden | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Laura King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery}} | To learn more about responses to: Laura King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Loftes Tryk aka Lofte Payne}} | To learn more about responses to: Loftes Tryk aka Lofte Payne | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Luke WIlson}} | To learn more about responses to: Luke WIlson | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Marquardt and Walters}} | To learn more about responses to: Marquardt and Walters | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Martha Beck}} | To learn more about responses to: Martha Beck | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Mcgregor Ministries}} | To learn more about responses to: Mcgregor Ministries | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: McKeever and Johnson}} | To learn more about responses to: McKeever and Johnson | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: New Approaches}} | To learn more about responses to: New Approaches to the Book of Mormon | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Richard Abanes}} | To learn more about responses to: Richard Abanes | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Richard Van Wagoner}} | To learn more about responses to: Richard Van Wagoner | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Richard and Joan Ostling}} | To learn more about responses to: Richard and Joan Ostling | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Rick Grunger}} | To learn more about responses to: Rick Grunger | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Robert Ritner}} | To learn more about responses to: Robert Ritner | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Rod Meldrum}} | To learn more about responses to: Rod Meldrum | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Roger I Anderson}} | To learn more about responses to: Roger I Anderson | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ronald V. Huggins}} | To learn more about responses to: Ronald V. Huggins | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Sally Denton}} | To learn more about responses to: Sally Denton | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Simon Southerton}} | To learn more about responses to: Simon Southerton | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Thomas Murphy}} | To learn more about responses to: Thomas Murphy | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Todd Compton}} | To learn more about responses to: Todd Compton | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Vernal Holley}} | To learn more about responses to: Vernal Holley | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Walter Martin}} | To learn more about responses to: Walter Martin | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Wesley Walters}} | To learn more about responses to: Wesley Walters | edit |
{{To learn more box:responses to: Will Bagley}} | To learn more about responses to: Will Bagley | edit |
We welcome your suggestions for improving the content of this FAIR Wiki article. |
Sites we recommend: |
FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
We are a volunteer organization. We invite you to give back.
Donate Now