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|author=Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson | |author=Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson | ||
|noauthor= | |noauthor= | ||
|section=[[../|Index]], Claims made in Chapter: Jesus | |section=[[../|Index]], Claims made in Chapter 2: Jesus | ||
|previous=[[../Chapter 1|Chapter 1: God the Father]] | |previous=[[../Chapter 1|Chapter 1: God the Father]] | ||
|next=[[../Chapter 3|Chapter 3: The Trinity]] | |next=[[../Chapter 3|Chapter 3: The Trinity]] | ||
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{{IndexClaim | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
*The authors repeat the | *The authors repeat the common claim that, because Latter-day Saints differ in understanding the traits of the Lord Jesus Christ, they worship "a different Jesus." The authors quote Elder Bruce R. McConkie to lend an authoritative air to their interpretation of what the LDS position is on the matter: | ||
<blockquote> | <blockquote> | ||
And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ. | And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ. | ||
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{{IndexClaim | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
The authors endeavor to interpret what Latter-day Saints say to other Latter-day Saints, quoting Bruce McConkie, then telling us what he "really" means: | The authors endeavor to interpret what Latter-day Saints say to other Latter-day Saints, quoting Bruce R. McConkie, then telling us what he "really" means: | ||
<blockquote> | <blockquote> | ||
He [Jesus] is the Firstborn of the Father. By obedience and devotion to the truth he attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God, as the Lord Omnipotent, while yet in his pre-existent state… Inasmuch, however, as Christ attained Godhood while yet in pre-existence, he too stood as a God to the Other Spirits. | He [Jesus] is the Firstborn of the Father. By obedience and devotion to the truth he attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God, as the Lord Omnipotent, while yet in his pre-existent state… Inasmuch, however, as Christ attained Godhood while yet in pre-existence, he too stood as a God to the Other Spirits. | ||
<br><br> | <br><br> | ||
In essence, the Mormon Jesus, by becoming a god without having to live a human life on a previous planet, did something that his own "father" could not accomplish. | In essence, the Mormon Jesus, by becoming a god without having to live a human life on a previous planet, did something that his own "father" could not accomplish. | ||
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
|response= | |response= | ||
*The authors superimpose their assumptions onto LDS doctrine and commentary. There is no statement by any LDS authority stating that God the Father could not have been God without having lived in mortality. | *The authors superimpose their assumptions onto LDS doctrine and commentary. There is no statement by any LDS authority stating that God the Father could not have been God without having lived in mortality. | ||
*Ignoring the fact that their "interpretation" of Elder McConkie's "essence" has nothing to do with what Elder McConkie actually said, by so inferring that Latter-day Saints are too stupid to know what they believe (or what other Latter-day Saints are saying), the authors grossly insult the intelligence of Latter-day Saints. Further, they, like other | *Ignoring the fact that their "interpretation" of Elder McConkie's "essence" has nothing to do with what Elder McConkie actually said, by so inferring that Latter-day Saints are too stupid to know what they believe (or what other Latter-day Saints are saying), the authors grossly insult the intelligence of Latter-day Saints. Further, they, like other critics, claim that only ''they'' can properly interpret and explain what Latter-day Saints believe. | ||
*{{Detail|Jesus Christ/Deification before mortality}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
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It is our duty and calling, as ministers of the same salvation and Gospel, to gather every item of truth and reject every error. Whether a truth be found with professed infidels, or with the Universalists, or the Church of Rome, or the Methodists, the Church of England, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Quakers, the Shakers, or any other of the various and numerous different sects and parties, all of whom have more or less truth, it is the business of the Elders of this Church (Jesus, their Elder Brother, being at their head) to gather up all the truths in the world pertaining to life and salvation, to the Gospel we preach, to mechanism of every kind, to the sciences, and to philosophy, wherever it may be found in every nation, kindred, tongue, and people and bring it to Zion. {{ref|jod.7:283}} | It is our duty and calling, as ministers of the same salvation and Gospel, to gather every item of truth and reject every error. Whether a truth be found with professed infidels, or with the Universalists, or the Church of Rome, or the Methodists, the Church of England, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Quakers, the Shakers, or any other of the various and numerous different sects and parties, all of whom have more or less truth, it is the business of the Elders of this Church (Jesus, their Elder Brother, being at their head) to gather up all the truths in the world pertaining to life and salvation, to the Gospel we preach, to mechanism of every kind, to the sciences, and to philosophy, wherever it may be found in every nation, kindred, tongue, and people and bring it to Zion. {{ref|jod.7:283}} | ||
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
*{{Detail|Jesus Christ/Deification before mortality}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
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|claim= | |claim= | ||
*The authors falsely claim that it is official LDS doctrine that Jesus was born because God had sexual intercourse with Mary. | *The authors falsely claim that it is official LDS doctrine that Jesus was born because God had sexual intercourse with Mary. | ||
|authorsources= | |||
*Ezra Taft Benson, ''Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson'', 7, quoted in ''Ensign'' (April 1997), 15. | |||
*''Gospel Principles'', 64. | |||
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|vol=8|disc=27|start=115}} | |||
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Heber C. Kimball|vol=8|disc=54|start=211}} | |||
*Joseph F. Smith, ''Family Home Evening Manual'' (1972), 125-126. | |||
*Bruce R. McConkie, ''Mormon Doctrine'', 547, 742. | |||
*McConkie, ''The Promised Messiah'', 468. | |||
*Talmage, ''The Articles of Faith'', 466-467. | |||
*Talmage, ''Jesus the Christ'', 81. | |||
*''Messages for Exaltation: Eternal Insights from the Book of Mormon'' (1967), 378-379. | |||
*Stephen E. Robinson, ''The Mormon Puzzle'' (video, 1997) | |||
*McConkie, ''The Promised Messiah'', 466. | |||
|response= | |response= | ||
*It is significant that while the authors quote several LDS Apostles and Prophets to the extent that Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God (and Latter-day Saints do believe this), not once do they cite an official source that proclaims that Jesus was not virgin-born. Elder McConkie's assertion that disbelief in Christ's virgin birth is apostate {{ref|mcconkie.822}} is strangely missing, even though McConkie's statement that Jesus is literally God's Son is quoted. Also missing are Book of Mormon statements to that effect. {{ref|comment2}} | *It is significant that while the authors quote several LDS Apostles and Prophets to the extent that Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God (and Latter-day Saints do believe this), not once do they cite an official source that proclaims that Jesus was not virgin-born. Elder McConkie's assertion that disbelief in Christ's virgin birth is apostate {{ref|mcconkie.822}} is strangely missing, even though McConkie's statement that Jesus is literally God's Son is quoted. Also missing are Book of Mormon statements to that effect. {{ref|comment2}} | ||
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|claim= | |claim= | ||
*The authors further insult the intelligence of Latter-day Saints by claiming that Elder Milton Hunter's biblical assertion ({{s||Hebrews|5|8}}) that Jesus Christ is God because of His "continued obedience to gospel laws" is in fact, a "diminishing of Jesus." | *The authors further insult the intelligence of Latter-day Saints by claiming that Elder Milton Hunter's biblical assertion ({{s||Hebrews|5|8}}) that Jesus Christ is God because of His "continued obedience to gospel laws" is in fact, a "diminishing of Jesus." | ||
|authorsources= | |||
*Milton R. Hunter, ''The Gospel Through the Ages'', 51, 200. | |||
|response= | |response= | ||
*The Book of Mormon quite clearly asserts that Jesus Christ is the Eternal God. (See Book of Mormon, Title Page) | *The Book of Mormon quite clearly asserts that Jesus Christ is the Eternal God. (See Book of Mormon, Title Page) | ||
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|claim= | |claim= | ||
*The authors claim that the LDS believe Jesus Christ and Lucifer are brothers in the sense that both are in evil cahoots with each other. | *The authors claim that the LDS believe Jesus Christ and Lucifer are brothers in the sense that both are in evil cahoots with each other. | ||
|authorsources= | |||
*Kimball, ''Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball'', 32-33. | |||
*Hunter ''The Gospel Through the Ages'', 15. | |||
*Jess L. Christensen, ''A Sure Foundation: Answers to Difficult Gospel Questions'', 223-224. | |||
|response= | |response= | ||
*This ignores the LDS belief that all beings of spirit (not just Jesus and Lucifer) are children of God, Who is the "Father of Spirits." ({{s||Hebrews|12|9}}) | *This ignores the LDS belief that all beings of spirit (not just Jesus and Lucifer) are children of God, Who is the "Father of Spirits." ({{s||Hebrews|12|9}}) | ||
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*The authors claim that the "Jesus of Mormonism is but one of many saviors." | *The authors claim that the "Jesus of Mormonism is but one of many saviors." | ||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
*Brigham Young | *{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|vol=14|disc=10|start=71|end=72}} | ||
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|vol=7|disc=52|start=333}} | |||
|response= | |response= | ||
{{nw}} | {{nw}} | ||
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|claim= | |claim= | ||
*The authors take issue with the belief that some Latter-day Saints have that Jesus Christ was married. | *The authors take issue with the belief that some Latter-day Saints have that Jesus Christ was married. | ||
36-40 | |||
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Brigham Young|vol=13|disc=35|start=309}} | |||
*Orson Pratt, ''The Seer'', 172. | |||
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Orson Hyde|vol=4|disc=49|start=259}} | |||
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Orson Hyde|vol=2|disc=18|start=81|end=82}} | |||
*{{JDfairwiki|author=Orson Hyde|vol=2|disc=34|start=210}} | |||
|response= | |response= | ||
*What is it about Jesus being married that would make Him less of our Lord and Saviour? And why does the fact that some LDS believe that He was married condemn them all? The authors simply do not state. | *What is it about Jesus being married that would make Him less of our Lord and Saviour? And why does the fact that some LDS believe that He was married condemn them all? The authors simply do not state. |
This article is a draft. FairMormon editors are currently editing it. We welcome your suggestions on improving the content.
Chapter 1: God the Father | A FAIR Analysis of: Criticism of Mormonism/Books A work by author: Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson
|
Chapter 3: The Trinity |
And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ.
Author's source(s)
Response
"We cannot imagine, for instance, a Baptist telling a Lutheran, 'Our Jesus is basically the one Lutherans worship.' A Presbyterian would not tell a Methodist that he does not believe in the traditional Christ. Nor can we imagine a member from the Assemblies of God telling a Wesleyan that the Christ of the Wesleyan Church is mythical."
Response
Response
He [Jesus] is the Firstborn of the Father. By obedience and devotion to the truth he attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God, as the Lord Omnipotent, while yet in his pre-existent state… Inasmuch, however, as Christ attained Godhood while yet in pre-existence, he too stood as a God to the Other Spirits.
In essence, the Mormon Jesus, by becoming a god without having to live a human life on a previous planet, did something that his own "father" could not accomplish.
Response
"How could Jesus obtain godhood in the preexistence when the whole purpose of the mortal probation is supposedly to test the individual's worthiness to become a god?"
Response
Paul certainly admonished the Corinthians for accepting a false version of Christ when he said in 2 Corinthians 11:4, "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." He added:
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.15
Have the Presbyterians any truth? Yes. Have the Baptists, Methodists, etc., any truth? Yes. They all have a little truth mixed with error. We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true "Mormons." [5]
It is our duty and calling, as ministers of the same salvation and Gospel, to gather every item of truth and reject every error. Whether a truth be found with professed infidels, or with the Universalists, or the Church of Rome, or the Methodists, the Church of England, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Quakers, the Shakers, or any other of the various and numerous different sects and parties, all of whom have more or less truth, it is the business of the Elders of this Church (Jesus, their Elder Brother, being at their head) to gather up all the truths in the world pertaining to life and salvation, to the Gospel we preach, to mechanism of every kind, to the sciences, and to philosophy, wherever it may be found in every nation, kindred, tongue, and people and bring it to Zion. [6]
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