
FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
m (Johanine Comma) |
mNo edit summary |
||
Line 94: | Line 94: | ||
Note also that later theologians had to contribute ‘extra’ information to solve the problem. This extra eventually resulted in the Trinitarian formulae of today. | Note also that later theologians had to contribute ‘extra’ information to solve the problem. This extra eventually resulted in the Trinitarian formulae of today. | ||
===What about 1 John 5:7–8=== | ===What about 1 John 5:7–8?=== | ||
[http://scriptures.lds.org/1_john/5/7#8 1 John 7-8] reads: | [http://scriptures.lds.org/1_john/5/7#8 1 John 7-8] reads: | ||
Line 115: | Line 115: | ||
:''There are three which bear witness on earth, the spirit and the water and the blood, and these three are one in Christ Jesus; and there are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Spirit, and these three are one.'' | :''There are three which bear witness on earth, the spirit and the water and the blood, and these three are one in Christ Jesus; and there are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Spirit, and these three are one.'' | ||
===Why is 1 John 5:7–8 still in the Bible, then?=== | |||
The writer Erasmus noted the problem with these verses in the 1500s, and did not include the addition change in his Greek New Testament: | |||
:On the basis of the manuscript evidence available to him, Erasmus had eliminated the passage [1 John 5:7] from his first edition of the Greek New Testament in 1516, but had restored it in later editions, responding to a storm of protest and to further textual evidence that was produced—quite literally produced--in support of the text. Luther's translation of the New Testament into German, being based on the 1516 edition of Erasmus, did not contain the passage. Although the weight of textual evidence against it was seemingly overwhelming, the proof it supplied for the Trinity made an attack on its authenticity seemed to be an attack on the dogma [thus orthodoxy sought to wrongly restore the Johannine Comma].{{ref|pelikan1}} | |||
This author explains that people were outraged that the verse was taken out. Erasmus replied that he would include it if they could show him a single Greek manuscript that contained it. Scholars believe that a forgery was produced, and (good to his word) Erasmus included the change in his next editions. People cared more about what their dogma, creeds, and councils had taught than what the word of God actually said. The above author continues: | |||
:The most pertinacious and conservative in various communions were still holding out for the authenticity of the "Johannine Comma" in 1 John 5:7, despite all the textual and patristic evidence [evidence from the Early Christian Fathers before Nicea] against it, but there was an all but unanimous consensus among textual critics that it represented a later interpolation.{{ref|pelikan2}} | |||
Many Bible translations today omit this part of the text, since it is not considered to be authentic: | |||
:So there are three that testify, the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are of one accord.{{ref|nab1}} | |||
===Why, then, was Nicean Trinitarian introduced at all?=== | ===Why, then, was Nicean Trinitarian introduced at all?=== | ||
Line 124: | Line 135: | ||
===Is modern Trinitarianism all understood in the same sense?=== | ===Is modern Trinitarianism all understood in the same sense?=== | ||
Owen Thomas, a professor of systemic theology, noted that: | |||
:...our survey of the history of the [Trinity] doctrine in the text has indicated that there are several doctrines of the trinity: Eastern, Western, social analogy, modal, so forth. There is one doctrine in the sense of the threefold name of God of the rule of faith as found, for example, in the Apostle's Creed. This, however, is not yet a doctrine. It is ambiguous and can be interpreted in a number of ways. There is one doctrine in the sense of the Western formula of "three persons in one substance." However, this formula is also ambiguous if not misleading and can be interpreted in a number of ways. A doctrine of the trinity would presumably be one interpretation of this formula . . . let us assume that the phrase "doctrine of the trinity" in the question refers to any of a number of widely accepted interpretations of the threefold name of God in the role of faith.{{ref|thomas1}} | |||
So, there is ambiguity and disagreement still. This is not characteristic of revelation, but rather of man’s imperfect intellectual efforts to define God according to philosophical criteria. Proponents of this view have even added text to the Bible and opposed the correcting of such errors when it was discovered. | |||
In conclusion, note what one current thinker about the Trinity writes: | |||
"The notion that in the Trinity one Person may be the font or source of being or Godhead for another lingered on to be a cause of friction and controversy between the East and the West, and still persists today. The main thesis of these lectures, I have said, is that the act of faith required for acceptance of the doctrine of the Trinity is faith that the Divine unity is a dynamic unity actively unifying in the one divine life the lives of the three divine persons. I now wish to add that in this unity there is no room for any trace of subordinationism, and that the thought of the Father as the source or fount of God-head is a relic of pre Christian theology which has not fully assimilated the Christian revelation." -- [Hodgson, Doctrine of the Trinity, 102.] | |||
There is no room in his doctrine for ‘subordinationism’, but remember (already quoted above) that: | |||
"'Subordinationism', it is true, was pre-Nicean orthodoxy." [Bettenson, The Early Christian Fathers, p. 239.] | |||
It is interesting that ideas that were once perfectly orthodox within early Christianity (like subordinationism) are now classed as “pre-Christian theology” which hasn’t yet “assimilated the Christian revelation”. If anything, this looks like a ‘post-Christian theology’ that has ‘altered the Christian revelation’--this is not to argue that subordinationism is correct in all particulars, but merely to point out that current creedal ideas are not what all Christians have always believed. | |||
==Conclusion== | ==Conclusion== | ||
Line 162: | Line 188: | ||
<!--John 10:20--> | <!--John 10:20--> | ||
#{{note|brown1}} Raymond E. Brown, ''The Gospel According to John –XII'' (Garden City, New York: Doubleday & Co. Inc.), 403, 407. | #{{note|brown1}} Raymond E. Brown, ''The Gospel According to John –XII'' (Garden City, New York: Doubleday & Co. Inc.), 403, 407. | ||
#{{ | #{{note|geisler1}} Norman L. Geisler and William E. Nix, ''A General Introduction to the Bible'' (Chicago, Moody Press, 1968), 370. | ||
#{{ | #{{note|johnson1}} Paul Johnson, A History of Christianity, (New York: Touchstone, 1976), 26–27. ISBN 684815036. | ||
#{{note|pelikan1}} Jaroslav Pelikan, ''The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine, Volume 4 : Reformation of Church and Dogma (1300-1700)'' (University Of Chicago Press, 1985), 4:346, comments in bracket A1. ISBN 0226653773. | |||
#{{note]pelikan2}} Jaroslav Pelikan, ''The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine, Volume 5 : Christian Doctrine and Modern Culture (since 1700)'' (University Of Chicago Press, 1991), 193. ISBN 0226653803. | |||
#{{note|nab1}} Confraternity of Christian Doctrine, ''The New American Bible'' (World Bible Publishers, Iowa Falls, 1991), 1363. | |||
<!--Why trinity? refs--> | <!--Why trinity? refs--> | ||
#{{note|aland1}} Kurt Aland, ''A History of Christianity'' (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1985), 1:190. | #{{note|aland1}} Kurt Aland, ''A History of Christianity'' (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1985), 1:190. | ||
<!--Trinitarians agree? refs--> | |||
#{{note|thomas1}} Thomas "Theological Questions" 34 (1983). | |||
<!--Conclusion refs--> | <!--Conclusion refs--> | ||
#{{note|hill1}}William J. Hill, ''The Three-Personed God'' (Washington DC: The Catholic University of America Press, 1982), 27. | #{{note|hill1}}William J. Hill, ''The Three-Personed God'' (Washington DC: The Catholic University of America Press, 1982), 27. |
This article is a draft. FairMormon editors are currently editing it. We welcome your suggestions on improving the content.
Critics claim that because the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint does not accept the Nicene Creed's statement about the Trinity, they are not Christian.
Since the Nicene Creed was first adopted in A.D. 325, it seems clear that there were many Christians in the first centuries following the resurrection of Christ who did not use it. Those who oppose calling the Latter-day Saints "Christians" need to explain whether Peter and Paul are "Christians," since they lived and practiced Christianity at a time when there was no Nicene Creed, and no Trinitarianism in the current sense.
Critics may try to argue that the Nicene Creed is merely a statement of Biblical principles, but Bible scholarship is very clear that the Nicene Creed was a novelty and an innovation.
No. There is abundant evidence that “Trinitarianism”, as now understood by the majority of Protestants and Catholics was not present in the Early Christian Church.
in all forms of rational Theism. Judaism, Islam, and rational Theism are Unitarian. On the other hand, we must honestly admit that the doctrine of the Trinity did not form part of the early Christian-New Testament-message. Certainly, it cannot be denied that not only the word "Trinity", but even the explicit idea of the Trinity is absent from the apostolic witness of the faith. The doctrine of the Trinity itself, however, is not a Biblical Doctrine...[1]
We do know that Christian orthodoxy before Nicaea was not the Trinitarian creeds now popular:
'Subordinationism', it is true, was pre-Nicean orthodoxy.[2]
‘Subordinationism’ is a doctrine which means that Jesus and/or the Holy Ghost are ‘subordinate’ or ‘subject’ to God the Father. In subordinationism, Jesus must be a separate being from the Father, because you can’t be subject to yourself! This was the orthodox position before the Nicean council. Ideas that were once orthodox were later considered unacceptable after the councils altered and added to the doctrine.
And:
So, Christians whose ideas were completely orthodox earlier would have been considered ‘heretics’ (i.e. going against the accepted doctrine) after the Nicean councils. This seems to be clear evidence that the doctrine was radically changed.
One also notes that Paul and the other New Testament writers would have been likewise ‘unorthodox’. Eusebius, an early Church historian, was even termed "blatantly subordinationist" by a Catholic author.[5]
Even after the Trinitarian ideas were formed, there were three ‘camps’ of believers that understood the matter in very different ways:
If such was the teaching of Athanasius and his allies [i.e. homoousious as numerical unity of substance, rather than ‘the same kind of being’ in the three persons of the Godhead] , at least three types of theology found shelter at different times in the anti-Nicean camp. The first, indefinite, on occasion ambiguous on the crucial issues, but on the whole conciliatory, reflects the attitude of the great conservative 'middle party'.... It's positive doctrine is that there are three divine hypostases [i.e. persons], separate in rank and glory but united in harmony of will.[6]
Thus, most believers initially believed that there were three persons with a united will. It was only later that this group was “won over” to Athanasius and his group’s brand of Trinitarianism, which is the basis for today’s understanding in most of Christianity. Indeed, Athanasius and his cadre were decidedly in the minority:
And, there is a noted tendency for some Christian writers to assume that the way they understand the nature of God is the only way in which anyone could have understood it. An evangelical scholar notes:
Note that this author says that many of “the crucial concepts” are “post-biblical novelties”: that is, they are new ideas that arrived on the scene after the Bible was written. If the crucial concepts weren’t around until later, then the doctrine wasn’t around until later either. As the author notes, these ideas arose out of the “Hellenistic milieu”, that is: Greek philosophy.
New ideas and concepts were required.
A Catholic encyclopedia notes that Trinitarianism doesn’t really appear until the last 25 years of the 4th century:
A Jesuit [Catholic] scholar says this:
The idea of “three” is present: but not as ‘three co-equal divine persons’ that are one being. An idea about the nature of God (or the Godhead) is present, but it is different from that which is taught as Trinitarianism.
Two authors even assert that the Apostle Paul, the four gospels, and Acts have no Trinitarian understanding:
And:
So, Paul doesn’t even ‘realize’ that there is a ‘Trinitarian problem’. Could this be because for Paul there was no such problem, because the doctrine was unknown to him? It was not an issue in his era, because it was not taught by Jesus or the Apostles, and no one felt the need to reconcile divine revelation with Greek philosophy.
One author asserts that the Trinity is correct, but readily admits that:
John 10:30 was an important scripture in the early debates discussed above.
One author wrote of it:
Note that “one” in this verse is neuter, not masculine. In Greek, the masculine would be used to indicate a oneness of person or being, and neuter implies a oneness of purpose. So, read literally the verse merely says that Jesus and the Father are one in purpose or will: only a belief in the Trinity at the outset would lead one to read this as a Trinitarian passage.
Note also that later theologians had to contribute ‘extra’ information to solve the problem. This extra eventually resulted in the Trinitarian formulae of today.
1 John 7-8 reads:
These verses are considered to have been added to the Bible text. Said one conservative reference work:
Historian Paul Johnson notes:
So, the early Christians never referred to these verses in their writings. The verse in the early Greek manuscripts simply says:
But, in the 4th century, the verse had words added to it to support the ‘new’ orthodox doctrine of the Trinity:
The writer Erasmus noted the problem with these verses in the 1500s, and did not include the addition change in his Greek New Testament:
This author explains that people were outraged that the verse was taken out. Erasmus replied that he would include it if they could show him a single Greek manuscript that contained it. Scholars believe that a forgery was produced, and (good to his word) Erasmus included the change in his next editions. People cared more about what their dogma, creeds, and councils had taught than what the word of God actually said. The above author continues:
Many Bible translations today omit this part of the text, since it is not considered to be authentic:
Simply put, people tried a ‘new’ way of talking about God because of disputes about the nature and mission of Christ. In the LDS view, this is because the loss of revelation to the Apostles (due to the apostasy) meant that Christianity was divided about key issues. No one had a good way to resolve the questions, and so they turned to the best intellectual tools they had—they merged Christian theology with Greek philosophy.
Owen Thomas, a professor of systemic theology, noted that:
So, there is ambiguity and disagreement still. This is not characteristic of revelation, but rather of man’s imperfect intellectual efforts to define God according to philosophical criteria. Proponents of this view have even added text to the Bible and opposed the correcting of such errors when it was discovered.
In conclusion, note what one current thinker about the Trinity writes:
"The notion that in the Trinity one Person may be the font or source of being or Godhead for another lingered on to be a cause of friction and controversy between the East and the West, and still persists today. The main thesis of these lectures, I have said, is that the act of faith required for acceptance of the doctrine of the Trinity is faith that the Divine unity is a dynamic unity actively unifying in the one divine life the lives of the three divine persons. I now wish to add that in this unity there is no room for any trace of subordinationism, and that the thought of the Father as the source or fount of God-head is a relic of pre Christian theology which has not fully assimilated the Christian revelation." -- [Hodgson, Doctrine of the Trinity, 102.]
There is no room in his doctrine for ‘subordinationism’, but remember (already quoted above) that:
"'Subordinationism', it is true, was pre-Nicean orthodoxy." [Bettenson, The Early Christian Fathers, p. 239.]
It is interesting that ideas that were once perfectly orthodox within early Christianity (like subordinationism) are now classed as “pre-Christian theology” which hasn’t yet “assimilated the Christian revelation”. If anything, this looks like a ‘post-Christian theology’ that has ‘altered the Christian revelation’--this is not to argue that subordinationism is correct in all particulars, but merely to point out that current creedal ideas are not what all Christians have always believed.
Some modern Christians wish to apply a "doctrinal exclusion" to declare who is or isn't Christian. Such definitions are generally self-serving, and not very helpful. With the Nicene Creed, critics are ironically in the position of using a definition that would exclude all Christians for more than two centuries after Christ from the Christian fold.
These passages are succinct summaries. If a critic wishes to justify his or her belief in the creedal Trinity, they must rely on tradition and the creeds of the 4th century, and abandon claims of scriptural or historical support for such a belief in early Christianity, including among the apostles and those they taught.
Since the LDS believe in an apostasy from true doctrine, they see the creedal Trinitarianism—which is an admitted novelty in the centuries after Christ—as evidence of it.
FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
We are a volunteer organization. We invite you to give back.
Donate Now