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Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 10: Difference between revisions
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====212, 549n35-37 (PB)====
====212, 549n35-37 (PB) - "Although the exact number of murders committed by Mormons between 1844 and 1846 remains unknown, it is certain that a majority of them were handled by Danites"====
{{IndexClaim
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=One Nation Under Gods
|claim=
|claim=
*{{AuthorQuote|"Although the exact number of murders committed by Mormons between 1844 and 1846 remains unknown, it is certain that a majority of them were handled by Danites Porter Rockwell, Hosea Stout, and Allen Stout."}}
{{AuthorQuote|"Although the exact number of murders committed by Mormons between 1844 and 1846 remains unknown, it is certain that a majority of them were handled by Danites Porter Rockwell, Hosea Stout, and Allen Stout."}}
|response=
|authorsources=<br>
*''History of the Church'', vol. 7, 446-447.
*{{CriticalWork:Quinn:Mormon Hierarchy|pages=653}}
*George Rockwell, letter to Thomas Rockwell, September 23, 1845. Quoted in {{CriticalWork:Quinn:Mormon Hierarchy|pages=181}}.
}}
* If the number of murders is unknown, how can we be 'certain' that these three men committed most of them?
* If the number of murders is unknown, how can we be 'certain' that these three men committed most of them?
* If three men are responsible for most of the (alleged) murders, then that is evidence for their perfidy, and not evidence of a general church policy of violence and murder.
* If three men are responsible for most of the (alleged) murders, then that is evidence for their perfidy, and not evidence of a general church policy of violence and murder.
* The author has demolished his own argument.
* The author has demolished his own argument.
*[[../../Loaded and prejudicial language|Loaded and prejudicial language]]
*[[../../Loaded and prejudicial language|Loaded and prejudicial language]]
|authorsources=
*''History of the Church'', vol. 7, 446-447.
*{{CriticalWork:Quinn:Mormon Hierarchy|pages=653}}
*George Rockwell, letter to Thomas Rockwell, September 23, 1845. Quoted in {{CriticalWork:Quinn:Mormon Hierarchy|pages=181}}.
}}


====213, 549n38 (PB)====
====213, 549n38 (PB)====

Revision as of 08:13, 28 November 2014

Response to claims made in "Chapter 10: A New Beginning"


Claims made in "Chapter 9: March to Martyrdom"
A FAIR Analysis of:
One Nation Under Gods
A work by author: Richard Abanes
 Claims made in "Chapter 11: Bloody Brigham"

205 (HB,PB)

Claim
  •  Author's quote: "Unrepentant abandonment to the 'lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the boastful pride of life' (1 John 2:16) had caused Joseph's ruin; nothing more, nothing less."

Author's source(s)
Response

207, 548n12 (PB) - Did Willard Richards have Samuel Smith murdered?

The author(s) of One Nation Under Gods make(s) the following claim:


  • Did Willard Richards have Samuel Smith murdered to prevent any succession issues?
  • Samuel's wife accused the Nauvoo Chief of Police: Hosea Stout.

    Author's sources: D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 153.

FAIR's Response

  • The following is on page 548 in the endnote: "Although Quinn explains in great depth the various reasons why it is probable that Stout killed Samuel, he adds a word of caution: 'This troubling allegation should not be ignored but cannot be verified.'"
  • The book does not make clear how Samuel's wife's suspicion that Hosea Stout killed her husband relates to Willard Richards possibly having "gone so far as to have Samuel murdered."

207, 548n13 (PB)

Claim
  • Polygamy was "being enjoyed" by certain members of the Twelve Apostles at the time of Joseph's death.

Author's source(s)
  • Richard S. Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1989), 78.
Response

211, 549n27 (PB)

Claim
  •  Author's quote: "Mormon thieves, who regularly stole from non-Mormons..."
  • The book claims that this had been a long-standing complaint about Saints in the area since eight issues of the Warsaw Signal published in late 1844 and early 1845 included articles related to "Mormon Thieves."

Author's source(s)
  • Marshall Hamilton, "From Assassination to Expulsion: Two Years of Distrust, Hostility, and Violence," in Launius and Hallwas, 216.
Response

211, 549n28 (PB) - Did Joseph Smith tell Porter Rockwell that "it was right to steal?"

The author(s) of One Nation Under Gods make(s) the following claim:

Did Joseph Smith tell Porter Rockwell that "it was right to steal?"

Author's sources: D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 637.

FAIR's Response

<onlyinclude>

  1. REDIRECTJoseph Smith's trustworthiness

211, 549n29 (PB)

Claim
  • Did Orson Hyde say that it was OK to "steal & be influenced by the spirit of the Lord to do it" as long as it was against non-Mormons?

Author's source(s)
  • Orson Hyde. Quoted in John Bennion, "John Bennion Journal," under October 13, 1860; cf. Brigham Young Office Journal, April 3, 1860.
Response

211, 549n31-34 (PB)

Claim
  • Did the Nauvoo police commit "many murders, vicious beatings, and intimidating assaults" against people that they thought to be enemies of the Church?

Author's source(s)
  • Allen J. Stout, "Allen J. Stout Journal," under June 28, 1844, Utah State Historical Society, 14, online at http://www.math.byu.edu/~smithw/Lds/LDS/Early-Saints/AStout.html
  • Hosea Stout, under February 22, 1845 and March 13, 1847, in Juanita Brooks, ed., On the Mormon Frontier: The Diary of Hosea Stout, vol. 1, 22; 241.
  • D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 151, 643.
Response

212, 549n35-37 (PB) - "Although the exact number of murders committed by Mormons between 1844 and 1846 remains unknown, it is certain that a majority of them were handled by Danites"

The author(s) of One Nation Under Gods make(s) the following claim:

 Author's quote: "Although the exact number of murders committed by Mormons between 1844 and 1846 remains unknown, it is certain that a majority of them were handled by Danites Porter Rockwell, Hosea Stout, and Allen Stout."

Author's sources:

FAIR's Response

  • If the number of murders is unknown, how can we be 'certain' that these three men committed most of them?
  • If three men are responsible for most of the (alleged) murders, then that is evidence for their perfidy, and not evidence of a general church policy of violence and murder.
  • The author has demolished his own argument.
  • Loaded and prejudicial language

213, 549n38 (PB)

Claim
  • Did Heber C. Kimball and Orson Hyde order Nauvoo's police force to kill an apostate named Lambert Symes, who "subsequently disappeared without a trace?"

Author's source(s)
Response

213, 550n41-43

Claim
  • Was "Mormon dissenter" Irvine Hodge "presumably" murdered by Nauvoo policemen because he threatened to "expose every Mormon who had been involved in stealing from non-Mormons" and threatened to harm Brigham Young and a Nauvoo policeman?

Author's source(s)
  • William Hall, The Abominations of Mormonism Exposed, 31-34.
  • D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 217, 651.
  • Brigham Young. Quoted on an undated page of statements by Jehiel Savage, Charles B. Thompson, George J. Adams, and Joseph Younger.
Response

213, 550n44-45 (PB)

Claim
  • Were members of the Council of Fifty responsible for committing murders?

Author's source(s)
  • Oliver B. Huntington, statement in "Seymour B. Young Diary," under May 23, 1903.
  • Clayton, under July 5, 1845.
  • D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 179.
Response

213, 550n44 (PB)

Claim
  • Was Jonathan Dunham killed because he had "ignored the prophet's direct order to lead the Nauvoo Legion in a rescue at Carthage Jail?"

Author's source(s)
Response

214, 550n46

Claim
  • Did Nauvoo Police Chief Hosea Stout have three men flogged because they "were not in good fellowship?"

Author's source(s)
  • Hosea Stout, under September 14, 1845, in Brooks, vol. 1, 63.
Response

214, 550n49-51

Claim
  • Were outsiders who were not "murdered or severely beaten" instead "whittled" out of town by Brigham's 'Whistling and Whittling Brigade?'"
  • Was the "Whistling and Whittling Brigade" a "violent gang of Mormons" that were "in good standing with the church?"

Author's source(s)
  • William B. Pace, William B. Pace Autobiography. Quoted in Dean Moody, "Nauvoo's Whistling and Whittling Brigade," BYU Studies (Summer 1975), vol. 15, 487. BYU Studies article PDF]
  •  Citation error: should be "Thurmon Dean Moody."
  • Jehiel Savage statement in minutes of the high council of James Strang's followers at Voree, Wisconsin, April 6, 1846.
  • Hosea Stout, under April 27, 1845, in Brooks, vol. 1, 36.
Response

216-217, 552n62-65 (HB)
550n62-65 (PB)

Claim
  • Do Government records indicate that Brigham Young, Willard Richards, Parley Pratt, and Orson Hyde were involved in making counterfeit coins?
  • Did that practice start "under Joseph's leadership?"

Author's source(s)
  • Jerald and Sandra Tanner, The Mormon Kingdom, vol. 2, 51-64.
  • D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 127, 650-651.
  • Warsaw Signal, June 5, 1844.
  • St Louis American, December 2, 1845.
Response

217

Claim
  • Did Brigham chose to start the exodus westward early because he was faced with the possibility of counterfeiting charges?

Author's source(s)
  • No source provided.
Response
  • The counterfeiting charges were likely a ploy to ensure that the Mormons left Nauvoo in 1846 as promised. Young's announcement that he would head west sent the message that they would not linger, which is what the local anti-Mormons wanted.
  • Crime and violence in Nauvoo
  • Kenneth W. Godfrey, "Crime and Punishment in Mormon Nauvoo, 1839-1846," Brigham Young University Studies 32 no. 1-2 (1991), 195-228. PDF link
  • Loaded and prejudicial language

220, 553n77 (HB)

Claim
  • Brigham "proudly admitted" "'I have been your dictator for twenty-seven years--over a quarter of a century I have dictated this people.'"

Author's source(s)
Response

221-222, 551n84-87

Claim
  • Do Latter-day Saints believe that "they were the only ones with a legitimate right to be stewards of the Lord's property—i.e., all creation. Gentiles, on the other hand, because they had no claim to the earth, would have to give up to the Saints what they mistakenly viewed as their property?"

Author's source(s)
Response

222, 554n88 (HB)

Claim
  • Did Brigham claim that God's kingdom had already come when he said: "[T]hat Kingdom is actually organized, and the inhabitants of earth do not [even] know it,"

Author's source(s)
Response

222, 554n89 (HB)

Claim
  • Brigham said: "[W]e will roll on the Kingdom of our God, gather out the seed of Abraham, build the cities and temples of Zion, and establish the Kingdom of God to bear rule over all the earth."

Author's source(s)
Response

223, 552n94

Claim
  • Did salvation depend upon obedience to Brigham Young?
  • When Mary Ettie V. Smith recalled asked Brigham, "are you my Saviour?" she claims that Brigham said, "Most assuredly I am....You cannot enter the Celestial kingdom, except by my consent. Do you doubt it?"

Author's source(s)
  • Quoted in Nelson Winch Green, Mormonism: its rise, progress, and present condition. Embracing the narrative of Mrs. Mary Ettie V. Smith, 201.
Response

223, 552n95

Claim
  • Did Brigham Young believe that one day he "would himself become president of the United States, or dictate who should be president?"

Author's source(s)
  • Hubert Howe Bancroft, History of Utah, 1540-1886, 505.
Response

223, 552n96 (PB)

Claim
  • John Taylor said "We used to have a difference between Church and State, but it is all one now..."

Author's source(s)
Response

223, 552n97 (PB)

Claim
  •  Author's quote: "Mormon leaders ruled via a ruthlessly oppressive theocracy wherein they kept followers in line through violence and intimidation."

Author's source(s)
Response

224, 552n98 (PB)

Claim
  • Was the Mormon Reformation was one of the most violent periods in Latter-day Saint history?
  • Were there "numerous murders" committed at the request of Brigham Young and other Church leaders?

Author's source(s)
  • Ann Eliza Young, Wife No. 19, or the Story of A Life In Bondage, Being A Complete Expose of Mormonism, and Revealing the Sorrows, Sacrifices and Sufferings of Women in Polygamy, Chapter 18.
Response
  • The author cites only a late, notoriously anti-Mormon nineteenth-century polemic for this claim.

Notes


  1. ↑ George D. Smith, Nauvoo Polygamy: "...but we called it celestial marriage" (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 2008), 310. ( Index of claims , (Detailed book review))
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