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Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 10: Difference between revisions

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*The authors are so determined to make Latter-day Saint writers look so 'un-Christian' that they quote those portions of LDS statements which contain the information they want their readers to know, but only that much. Such contextual selectivity is a form of bearing false witness. For instance, they quote the following from Lorenzo Snow, in 1893:
*The authors are so determined to make Latter-day Saint writers look so 'un-Christian' that they quote those portions of LDS statements which contain the information they want their readers to know, but only that much. Such contextual selectivity is a form of bearing false witness. For instance, they quote the following from Lorenzo Snow, in 1893:
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<blockquote>
The time approached that He was to pass through the severest affliction that any mortal ever did pass through. He undoubtedly had seen persons nailed to the cross, because that method of execution was common at that time, and He understood the torture that such persons experienced for hours. He went by Himself in the garden and prayed to His Father, if it were possible, that this cup might pass from Him; and His feelings were such that He sweat great drops of blood, and in His agony there was an angel sent to give Him comfort and strength. {{ref|101.142}}
The time approached that He was to pass through the severest affliction that any mortal ever did pass through. He undoubtedly had seen persons nailed to the cross, because that method of execution was common at that time, and He understood the torture that such persons experienced for hours. He went by Himself in the garden and prayed to His Father, if it were possible, that this cup might pass from Him; and His feelings were such that He sweat great drops of blood, and in His agony there was an angel sent to give Him comfort and strength.<ref>{{CriticalWork:McKeever Johnson: Mormonism 101|pages=142}} They quote {{Book:Stuy:CD|vol=3|pages=362}}</ref>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
|response=
|response=
*This quotation is meant by the authors to indicate that the LDS teaching on the atonement is that it took place "primarily in the garden." What they fail to do, however, is read further into the talk given by Elder Snow. He stated in the same talk that "when Jesus went through that terrible torture on the cross, He saw what would be accomplished by it; He saw that His brethren and sisters—the sons and daughters of God—would be gathered in, with but few exceptions—those who committed the unpardonable sin. That sacrifice of the divine Being was effectual to destroy the powers of Satan." {{ref|collected.364}} Clearly the cross was important in President Snow's soteriology.
*This quotation is meant by the authors to indicate that the LDS teaching on the atonement is that it took place "primarily in the garden." What they fail to do, however, is read further into the talk given by Elder Snow. He stated in the same talk that "when Jesus went through that terrible torture on the cross, He saw what would be accomplished by it; He saw that His brethren and sisters—the sons and daughters of God—would be gathered in, with but few exceptions—those who committed the unpardonable sin. That sacrifice of the divine Being was effectual to destroy the powers of Satan."<ref>{{Book:Stuy:CD/Short|pages=364-365}}</ref> Clearly the cross was important in President Snow's soteriology.
*{{Detail|Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross}}
*{{Detail|Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross}}
}}
}}

Revision as of 19:20, 10 June 2014

Response to claims made in "Chapter 10: The Atonement"


Chapter 9: D&C and Pearl of Gt Price
A FAIR Analysis of:
Mormonism 101
A work by author: Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson
 Chapter 11: Grace and Works
This is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me. And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross. (3 Nephi 27:13–4)
∗       ∗       ∗

139

Claim
  • The authors begin their discussion of the atonement by stating that mainstream Christians and Latter-day Christians "both accept the atonement of Christ."

Response
  • In thus stating it the authors seriously understate the position of the Church of Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith, the founding prophet, stated that "the fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it." Those appendages include the gift of the Holy Ghost, power of faith, enjoyment of the spiritual gifts, restoration of the house of Israel, and the final triumph of truth.9 The atonement of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the central fact of all LDS theological teaching.
  • For a detailed response, see: Jesus Christ/Atonement

The Atonement According to Mormonism

140

Claim
  • The authors quote President Ezra Taft Benson to the effect that "it was in Gethsemane that Jesus took on Himself the sins of the world."

Response
  • Had the authors but taken the time to seek out the entire article from which this statement is taken they would have noticed that Elder Benson continues by referring to "the glorious Atonement of our Lord which extended from Gethsemane to Golgotha."[1]
  • Even without having sought out the original text, they could have determined the incorrect judgment they made of President Benson's position. They could have quoted from the same volume the quotation immediately preceding the one they cited: "In Gethsemane and on Calvary, He worked out the infinite and eternal atonement. It was the greatest single act of love in recorded history. Thus He became our Redeemer."[2]
  • The atonement is clearly defined as having encompassed both the Garden and the cross. The cross is not in the least devalued or neglected. Had there been no death on the cross, whatever it was that happened in the Garden would have been superfluous. With the cross, the events in the Garden have meaning and significance.
  • For a detailed response, see: Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross

140-148

Claim
  • The authors begin by stating that "Mormon leaders have taught that this atoning sacrifice began in the Garden of Gethsemane." They then quote President Benson and Elder McConkie to the effect that the major portion of the atonement took place in the Garden. From this they conclude that one of the major themes of the LDS faith is that the atonement "took place primarily in the Garden."

Response
  • The authors claim that the atonement "took place primarily in the Garden" ought to lead one to conclude that it took place 'secondarily' somewhere else: perhaps the cross?
  • Despite the ambiguity of these statements the authors rather strangely write that "if Mormons doubt that their church emphasizes the importance of Gethsemane today" they should consider a statement from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, which they then quote. Again, this statement indicates that it took place "primarily" in the Garden. Even though the two passages quoted from Elders Benson and McConkie are unequivocal about the significance of the Garden for the atonement, all the other LDS passages quoted by the authors are just the opposite: they are totally equivocal. And for good reason: the Latter-day Saint leaders, including the two they cite, do not in any way restrict the atoning sacrifice of our Savior to the Garden. But they definitely consider the atonement to have had its beginning there.
  • The authors write that the Garden of Gethsemane is only mentioned twice in the scriptures, apparently to suggest that anything mentioned so infrequently must not be of much value. They need to realize that the concept that "the Word was made flesh" is mentioned only once; would they therefore reject its significance also?[3] Is it insignificant that 'Calvary' occurs only at Luke 23:33, and that there is absolutely no warrant for it in the Greek?[4] It is also significant, as Leon Morris has written, "to find that, apart from the crucifixion narrative [in the Gospels]…Paul is the only New Testament writer to speak about 'the cross.'"[5] Furthermore, a recent addition to the literature about the cross in the New Testament points out that even in Paul it is not used frequently. His first two letters, the two to the Thessalonians, make no mention of the cross or the crucifixion. Nor do the last three letters make any reference to the cross (i.e., II Corinthians, Romans, and II Timothy).[6] Murphy-O'Connor refers to nine "fragments of traditional teaching" which appear in Paul's letters. These help to determine "the common doctrinal base that Paul shared with the rest of the early church… Not a single one of these formulae that he inherited from his Christian environment mentions the crucifixion." Our source goes on to indicate that only two of them "formally state that he died." Therefore, in the others it must be inferred by the fact that He was resurrected from the dead.[7]
  • For a detailed response, see: Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross and Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross/Quotes

141

Claim
  • The authors quote Bruce R. McConkie: "it was in Gethsemane that 'he suffered the pain of all men… [and] took upon himself the sins of all men…"

Response
  • What the authors fail to quote, from the same source and on the same page, is this:

In some way, incomprehensible to us, Gethsemane, the cross, and the empty tomb join into one grand and eternal drama, in the course of which Jesus abolishes death, and out of which comes immortality for all and eternal life for the righteous.[8]

  • In point of fact, Elder McConkie writes in the same place regarding the darkness that surrounded the crucifixion: "Could it be that this was the period of his greatest trial, or that during it the agonies of Gethsemane recurred and even intensified?"[9] Elsewhere Elder McConkie is very clear. In speaking to students at BYU he said: "We are saved because God sent his Son to shed his blood in Gethsemane and on Calvary that all through him might ransomed be. We are saved by the blood of Christ."[10] As far back as 1948, in October General Conference of that year, Elder McConkie, then a Seventy, stated:

As I understand it, our mission to the world in this day, is to testify of Jesus Christ. Our mission is to bear record that he is the Son of the Living God and that he was crucified for the sins of the world; that salvation was, and is, and is to come, in and through his atoning blood… We believe that he came into the world with the express mission of dying upon the cross for the sins of the world; that he is, actually, literally, and really the Redeemer of the world and the Savior of men; and that by the shedding of his blood he has offered to all men forgiveness of sins conditioned upon their repentance and obedience to the gospel plan.[11]

  • In yet another place Elder McConkie wrote; "What then are the sacrifices of the true Christian? They are unending praise and thanksgiving to the Father who gave his Only Begotten Son as a ransom for our sins; they are everlasting praise to the Son for the merits and mercies and grace of his atoning sacrifice."[12] In his article on "Atonement of Christ" in his Mormon Doctrine, a book that the authors claim to have read, Elder McConkie begins by quoting several scriptural passages. Some of these will be abridged here:[13]
  • "This is the Gospel…that Jesus came into the world to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world." (DC 76꞉40–42)
  • "My Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross." (3 Nephi 27꞉14)
  • "Behold [the Holy Messiah] offereth himself a sacrifice for sin." (2 Nephi 2꞉6–9)
  • "as in Adam, or by nature, they fall, even so the blood of Christ atoneth for their sins… There shall be no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come unto the children of men, only in and through the name of Christ… Salvation was, and is, and is to come, in and through the atoning blood of Christ." (Mosiah 3꞉16–19)
  • For a detailed response, see: Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross


141

Claim
  • Near the end of their chapter on the atonement the authors suggest that the apparent overemphasis on the shedding of blood in the Garden rather than on the cross "no doubt is but one of several reasons why crosses cannot be found on LDS buildings. Certainly in the mind of the Latter-day Saint, the significance of the cross is not nearly as important as it is to the evangelical Christian."

Response
  • Whether the cross has any significance in the LDS faith has already been discussed; it does. That it has less importance for the LDS than for the evangelical Christian is simply not true. From the LDS perspective the empty tomb is a more fitting symbol of the Savior's atonement than is the Cross. We mean no disrespect towards those who choose otherwise; but we would like our position to be more faithfully reported by those who think we need their help. Latter-day Saints do not worship at the foot of the Cross; they worship at the feet of Christ. Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Creator of the universe; He is the Lord and Redeemer of humankind; He is the Founder and Head of His Church; He is my Savior; I have accepted Him as such, and seek constantly to do His will, to do as He would have me do.
  • For a detailed response, see: Jesus Christ/Atonement/Use of the cross

142

Claim
  • The authors are so determined to make Latter-day Saint writers look so 'un-Christian' that they quote those portions of LDS statements which contain the information they want their readers to know, but only that much. Such contextual selectivity is a form of bearing false witness. For instance, they quote the following from Lorenzo Snow, in 1893:

The time approached that He was to pass through the severest affliction that any mortal ever did pass through. He undoubtedly had seen persons nailed to the cross, because that method of execution was common at that time, and He understood the torture that such persons experienced for hours. He went by Himself in the garden and prayed to His Father, if it were possible, that this cup might pass from Him; and His feelings were such that He sweat great drops of blood, and in His agony there was an angel sent to give Him comfort and strength.[14]


Response

  • This quotation is meant by the authors to indicate that the LDS teaching on the atonement is that it took place "primarily in the garden." What they fail to do, however, is read further into the talk given by Elder Snow. He stated in the same talk that "when Jesus went through that terrible torture on the cross, He saw what would be accomplished by it; He saw that His brethren and sisters—the sons and daughters of God—would be gathered in, with but few exceptions—those who committed the unpardonable sin. That sacrifice of the divine Being was effectual to destroy the powers of Satan."[15] Clearly the cross was important in President Snow's soteriology.
  • For a detailed response, see: Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross


Christianity's Definition of the Atonement

The Cross, Not the Garden

145

Claim
  • It is also clear from what the authors write elsewhere that they are unclear about the LDS attitude towards the blood shed by the Savior. In discussing "Christianity's definition of atonement" they quote from Leon Morris that "because Christ's blood was shed, all who believe in him have access into the very holiest of all." [1] Later the authors point out "Hebrews 9.22 states that there is no remission of sins without the shedding (not sweating) of blood." [2] The parenthetical comment in this last quotation is a referral back to the authors' comment that "the New Testament says nothing about this phenomenon [of 'sweating great drops of blood'] having any role in the atonement." [3] Our authors then quote from several New Testament passages which refer to the fact that Christ died, or died on the cross, for us. (See 1 Corinthians 15:3; Colossians 2:13–4; Romans 5:8, 10; Galatians 6:14; Hebrews 10:10; Ephesians 2:16; Colossians 1:20)

Response
  • It should be clear from the LDS references cited above that these Biblical passages also are all accepted by the Latter-day Saints. They believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross to redeem humankind. He shed His blood for us. Many of those earlier statements refer to the blood that was shed by Him. LDS apologist Michael Hickenbotham has written that "Latter-day Saints emphatically affirm our reliance on the atoning blood of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, as attested to in the Bible," and then refers to Colossians 1:14, 1 Peter 1:18–19, 1 John 1:7, and Revelation 7:14. He then refers to those references found in the Book of Mormon: 1 Nephi 12:10; Mosiah 3:7, 11, 4:2; Alma 5:21, 27, 21:9, 24:13, 34:36; Helaman 5:9; Ether 13:10; and Moroni 4:1; 5:2; 10:33; and in modern scripture: D&C 20:40; 27:2; 76:69; and Moses 6:62. He then continues:

Even the sacrament prayer for the administration of the water affirms the symbolism of the atoning blood. It states in part: "…bless and sanctify this water to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them." [4]

  • King Benjamin in the Book of Mormon taught "salvation was, and is, and is to come, in and through the atoning blood of Christ." (Mosiah 3꞉18) King Benjamin lived long before the Savior was born; sometimes this has led to criticisms from our enemies. Cullen Story of Princeton Theological Seminary, in a recent article on Justin Martyr, has referred to what he calls Justin's use of the "prophetic perfect." In his discussions with Trypho on the correct interpretation of Isaiah 53:7 Justin, according to Story,

wanted Trypho and his friends to understand that the prophetic Spirit could and did speak "as if the passion has already occurred" Sometimes, he explained, the prophetic Spirit "has spoken concerning the things that are going to occur, uttering them as if at that time they were occurring or even had occurred." [5]

  • D&C 45:3–4 has the Lord speaking: "Listen to him who is the advocate with the Father, who is pleading your cause before him—saying: 'Father, behold the sufferings and death of him who did no sin, in whom thou wast well pleased; behold the blood of thy Son which was shed, the blood of him whom thou gavest that thy self might be glorified.'" There are many other statements regarding the shedding of Christ's blood, and its relationship to His redeeming sacrifice.
  • For a detailed response, see: Jesus Christ/Atonement/Quotes All the these statements from scripture and prophets ought to convince even the most casual observer that the Latter-day Saints do indeed believe that the death of Jesus Christ on the cross was a major component of the redemption wrought by our Savior. It should also be evident that the shedding of His blood was an integral part of that atoning sacrifice.


At the Cross Where I First Saw the Light

147

Claim
  • The authors quote Elder Marion G. Romney that it was in the Garden of Gethsemane "that he suffered most."

Response
  • What the authors fail to quote is the rest of the talk, wherein he states that "we cannot of ourselves, no matter how we may try, rid ourselves of the stain which is upon us as a result of our own transgressions. That stain must be washed away by the blood of the Redeemer." [6]
  • Three years previously Elder Romney stated, "through repentance he may bring himself within the reach of the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, so that thereby he may be cleansed from the effects of his transgressions and obtain forgiveness of them." [7]
  • For a detailed response, see: Jesus Christ/Atonement/The garden and the cross
==

Answer

==

148

Claim
  • The authors claim that the LDS version of the atonement frees up everyone from the effects of Adam's transgression. That is, the Church teaches that all will be resurrected, without exception. The major portion of the chapter deals with the authors' rejection of the LDS suggestion that the atonement proper took place in the Garden of Gethsemane, as if to suggest that to the LDS His death on the cross itself was simply an afterthought.

Response

Notes

  1. ↑ Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson, Mormonism 101. Examining the Religion of the Latter-day Saints (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Books, 2000), 140-141. ( Index of claims ) They cite Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988), 14. ISBN 0884946398. GospeLink At that location, the original source is Ezra Taft Benson, Come Unto Christ (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1983), 6-7. McKeever and Johnson could certainly have located this volume had they chosen to be thorough. The paper in its entirety has just been reprinted in Ensign (December 2001), 8–15. In this article President Benson gives five marks of the divinity of Jesus Christ. Those marks are: His divine birth; His ministry; His "great Atoning Sacrifice;" His "literal Resurrection;" and His promised second coming. The article was also published in Ensign (April 1997), which McKeever and Johnson read—see Mormonism 101, page 43, note 12.
  2. ↑ Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson, Mormonism 101. Examining the Religion of the Latter-day Saints (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Books, 2000), 140-141. ( Index of claims ) Again citing Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 14, which likewise derives from the same source listed above. It is part of the paper published in "Fiver Marks of the Divinity of Jesus Christ," Ensign (December 2001): 8–15. The next quotation is also from page 14. McKeever and Johnson claim to have read this volume of President Bensons' sermons and writings.
  3. ↑ The argument is used by Nicholas Lossky, "Theology and Prayer. An Orthodox Perspective," Ecumenical Theology in Worship, Doctrine, and Life: Essays Presented to Geoffrey Wainwright on his Sixtieth Birthday, edited by David S. Cunningham, Ralph Del Colle, and Lucas Lamadrid (New York: Oxford University Press, 1999), 24–32. On pages 28–29 Lossky uses the argument as a defense for deification against those who state that the singularity of 2 Peter 1:4 as a scriptural basis for deification is not acceptable.
  4. ↑ 'Calvary' is taken from the Latin version and passed into all English translations, until recently. See Alfred Plummer, The Gospel According to St. Luke, International Critical Commentary (New York: Scribner's, 1902), 530–531. Cf. LDS KJV, Bible Dictionary, "Calvary,". off-site.
  5. ↑ Leon Morris, The Cross in the New Testament (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1999), 216–217. Leon Morris is referred to by McKeever and Johnson as a "Christian theologian" and is quoted frequently throughout Mormonism 101. Morris is an Australian Anglican.
  6. ↑ Jerome Murphy-O'Connor, "'Even Death On a Cross:' Crucifixion in the Pauline Letters," The Cross in Christian Tradition: from Paul to Bonaventure, edited by Elizabeth A. Dreyer (Mahwah, New Jersey: Paulist Press, 2000), 21–50. Murphy-O'Connor, a Catholic, agrees with what Morris said: "If we leave aside the gospels, 'cross' and 'crucify' are Pauline terms." Page 23 includes a chart of Pauline uses in various letters. In fact he indicates that were it not for Paul, the Gospels probably would not have indicated the manner of Christ's death (page 22).
  7. ↑ Murphy, 24. Clearly, the emphasis in the early church was not on the death of Christ, but on His resurrection; not on the cross, but on the empty tomb. The nine passages are: 1 Thessalonians 1:9–10; Galatians 1:3–4; 1 Corinthians 15:3–5; Romans 1:3–4, 4:24–25, 10:9:{{{4}}}; also the eucharistic words in 1 Corinthians 11:23–25, and two liturgical hymns: Philemon 2:6–11 and Colossians 1:15–20. Indeed, with reference to {{b||Philemon|2|6–11, a leading study refers to "the noticeable absence of those themes which we associate with Paul's Christology and soteriology, e.g., the doctrine of redemption through the Cross, the Resurrection of Christ and the place of the Church," [Ralph P. Martin, A Hymn of Christ. Philippians 2:5–11 in Recent Interpretation and in the Setting of Early Christian Worship (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1997), 49.] It will be observed that verse 8 reads "became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." Martin continues the above quotation: "Although it is on the Cross that the Lord of glory brings His life of obedience to a climax, no redemptive significance is attached to that death in this verse. Indeed, as was noted earlier, the Cross may not be mentioned in the original version of the hymn." Martin claims the reference is Pauline, that is, it was inserted by Paul into the original hymn, which did not include the reference to the Cross. Hans Urs von Balthasar agrees with this assessment: that the reference to the Cross was added by Paul to a pre-existing hymn. [Hans Urs von Balthasar, Mysterium Paschale (San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 2000), 23.]
  8. ↑ Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson, Mormonism 101. Examining the Religion of the Latter-day Saints (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Books, 2000). ( Index of claims ) They quote Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah, 4 vols., (Salt Lake City, Deseret Book, 1980–1986), 127-128, 224, this quotation is from page 224. McKeever and Johnson claim to have read this volume.
  9. ↑ McConkie, The Mortal Messiah, 225, quoted in Callister, The Infinite Atonement, 135. Later, Elder McConkie wrote, "that all of the anguish, all of the sorrow, and all of the suffering of Gethsemane recurred during the final three hours on the cross, the hours when darkness covered the land." (McConkie, The Mortal Messiah, 232, note 22, quoted in Callister, The Infinite Atonement, 134–135.) Elsewhere Elder McConkie wrote, "Again, on Calvary, during the last three hours of his mortal passion, the sufferings of Gethsemane returned, and he drank to the full the cup which his Heavenly Father had given him." (Bruce R. McConkie, "The Seven Christs," Ensign (November 1982): 33. This is likewise quoted in Callister, The Infinite Atonement, 134–135.
  10. ↑ Bruce R. McConkie, "What Think ye of Salvation by Grace?", Brigham Young University 1983–1984 Fireside and Devotional Speeches (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Publications, 1984), 4; quoted in Robert Millet and Joseph Fielding McConkie, In His Holy Name (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988), 90–91. In fact, in the words just prior to those quoted, Elder McConkie addressed another topic: If "there is no atonement of Christ, what then? Can we be saved? Will all our good works save us? Will we be rewarded for all our righteousness? Most assuredly we will not. We are not saved by works alone, no matter how good; we are saved because God sent his son…" (Ibid., 90).
  11. ↑ Bruce R. McConkie, Conference Report (1 October 1948), 23, 25. Two years previously Elder Spencer W. Kimball, of the Quorum of Twelve, had testified that the Savior "must die for the sins of the world… They crucified him, the Son of God, on Calvary." [Spencer W. Kimball, Conference Report (April 1946), 45.]
  12. ↑ Bruce R. McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3 Vols. (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book, 1965–1973), 3:242.
  13. ↑ Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2nd edition, (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), 61. GL direct link How could McKeever and Johnson fail to have seen these verses quoted by Brother McConkie, considering the emphasis they place on what they claim as his false teachings about Gethsemane? How also could they miss the fact that Gethsemane is not mentioned once in this article? Nor is there mention of Gethsemane in his articles on Redemption, Mediator, Reconciliation, or Salvation.
  14. ↑ Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson, Mormonism 101. Examining the Religion of the Latter-day Saints (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Books, 2000), 142. ( Index of claims ) They quote Brian H. Stuy (editor), Collected Discourses: Delivered by Wilford Woodruff, his two counselors, the twelve apostles, and others, 1868–1898, 5 vols., (Woodland Hills, Utah: B.H.S. Publishing, 1987–1989), 3:362.
  15. ↑ Stuy (editor), Collected Discourses, {{{vol}}}:364-365.


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