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Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Appendix B: Difference between revisions
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*The author's conclusion is simply [[../../Absurd claims|absurd]]. | *The author's conclusion is simply [[../../Absurd claims|absurd]]. | ||
*The 'company' referred to was the Twelve apostles and their wives, at dinner. It says nothing about all Mormons refraining from cooking. | *The 'company' referred to was the Twelve apostles and their wives, at dinner. It says nothing about all Mormons refraining from cooking. | ||
*Those to whom the prophecy was addressed were soon to endure the privations of the migration to the west. At times they would have to go without fuel, and doubtless learned to subsist on fare that they would have turned down in the comforts of Nauvoo. Thus, Joseph's remarks (made "at supper...at the table") were probably prompted by the abundance of good food before them, which Joseph then prophesied they would not always have.{{ | *Those to whom the prophecy was addressed were soon to endure the privations of the migration to the west. At times they would have to go without fuel, and doubtless learned to subsist on fare that they would have turned down in the comforts of Nauvoo. Thus, Joseph's remarks (made "at supper...at the table") were probably prompted by the abundance of good food before them, which Joseph then prophesied they would not always have.<ref>The entry reads: "{p. 254} Tuesday, Feb[ruary] 6[th] [several lines left blank] Evening with Hyrum and Sidney and the 12 [Apostles] and the wives at John Taylor's at 5 P.M. at supper. Very pleasant time. I prophesied at the table that 5 years would not roll round before the company would all be able to live without cooking. [''rest of page blank'']" — {{AmericanProphetsRecord|pages=445}}</ref> | ||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
*Joseph Smith, ''Manuscript Diary'', February 6, 1844, omitted from the ''History of the Church''. Cited in {{CriticalWork:Quinn:Mormon Hierarchy|pages=642}}; cf. Faulring, 445. | *Joseph Smith, ''Manuscript Diary'', February 6, 1844, omitted from the ''History of the Church''. Cited in {{CriticalWork:Quinn:Mormon Hierarchy|pages=642}}; cf. Faulring, 445. | ||
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[[fr:Specific works/One Nation Under Gods/Index/Appendix B]] | [[fr:Specific works/One Nation Under Gods/Index/Appendix B]] | ||
Revision as of 01:08, 8 June 2014
Response to claims made in "Appendix B: Failed Joseph Smith Prophecies"
| Claims made in "Appendix A: Abraham's Book?" | A FAIR Analysis of: One Nation Under Gods A work by author: Richard Abanes
|
Claims made in "Appendix C: Recommended Resources" |
Smith prophesied "that 5 years would not roll round before the company would all be able to live without cooking." Mormons are still cooking their food.
—One Nation Under Gods, p. 465
459, 616n1
Claim
- Claim that Moroni told Joseph that Isaiah 11:6-11 was "about to be fulfilled."
Author's source(s) - Hyrum Smith. Quoted by Abraham O. Smoot, 1896, Provo School of the Prophets (see D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 639.)
- JS-H 1꞉40
- The scripture prophesies the day when "the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people," thus preparing for the time when "wolf also shall dwell with the lamb" in the millennial world. In an LDS world-view, the establishment of the Church and the gathering of scattered Israel through missionary work is a clear fulfillment of this prophecy.
- The author may not believe that this qualifies, but the Church's establishment, rapid growth, and conversion of millions certainly fits the context, since the Book of Mormon's translation was the necessary prelude to the gathering of Israel (compare 1 Nephi 10꞉14, 1 Nephi 14꞉1-2,7, 2 Nephi 25꞉17).
459, 616n2
Claim
- Joseph was to go to Canada and sell the Book of Mormon copyright.
Author's source(s) - Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith—History 1:40.
459, 616n3
Claim
- The book claims that the elect were to be gathered "against the day when tribulation and desolation are sent forth upon the wicked."
Author's source(s) - B.H. Roberts, Comprehensive History of the Church, vol. 1, 165.
- David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, 30-31.
- This is taught repeatedly in the Book of Mormon.
- The author may not believe that such a thing will happen, but this does not make it a "failed prophecy."
- Ironically, the author is a conservative Christian—yet, many early Christians of the Roman period believed that Christ's return was imminent two thousand years ago. The author is apparently willing to excuse them, but will condemn the Latter-day Saints because the end has not yet come. This is a good example of a double standard and special pleading.
460, 616n4
Claim
- The book states that it was predicted that "the elect shall be gathered into one place 'against the day when tribulation and desolation are sent forth upon the wicked," yet "Mormons remain a scattered people."
Author's source(s) Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
460, 616n5
Claim
- That "the hour is nigh and the day soon at hand" that Jesus Christ would return and the wicked would be destroyed.
Author's source(s) Response
- Ironically, the author is a conservative Christian—yet, many early Christians of the Roman period believed that Christ's return was imminent two thousand years ago. The author is apparently willing to excuse them, but will condemn the Latter-day Saints because the end has not yet come. This is a good example of a double standard and special pleading.
460, 616n6
Claim
- The Saints were to gather to Missouri and "gather riches and purchase an inheritance...where the wicked would not come." The book claims that the prophecy states that the wicked would "refuse to battle because of fearing the Mormons."
Author's source(s) Response
- D&C 45: 64-74
64 Wherefore I, the Lord, have said, gather ye out from the eastern lands, assemble ye yourselves together ye elders of my church; go ye forth into the western countries, call upon the inhabitants to repent, and inasmuch as they do repent, build up churches unto me.
65 And with one heart and with one mind, gather up your riches that ye may purchase an inheritance which shall hereafter be appointed unto you.
66 And it shall be called the New Jerusalem, a land of peace, a city of refuge, a place of safety for the saints of the Most High God;
67 And the glory of the Lord shall be there, and the terror of the Lord also shall be there, insomuch that the wicked will not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion.
68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.
69 And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.
70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand.
71 And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion, singing with songs of everlasting joy.
72 And now I say unto you, keep these things from going abroad unto the world until it is expedient in me, that ye may accomplish this work in the eyes of the people, and in the eyes of your enemies, that they may not know your works until ye have accomplished the thing which I have commanded you;
73 That when they shall know it, that they may consider these things.
74 For when the Lord shall appear he shall be terrible unto them, that fear may seize upon them, and they shall stand afar off and tremble.
460, 616n7
Claim
- A temple would be built in Missouri.
Author's source(s) Response
460, 616n8
Claim
- The temple in Missouri would be built "in this generation."
Response461, 616n9
Claim
- New York, Albany and Boston would be destroyed if they rejected the Gospel.
Author's source(s) Response
- D&C 84: 114-115
114 Nevertheless, let the bishop go unto the city of New York, also to the city of Albany, and also to the city of Boston, and warn the people of those cities with the sound of the gospel, with a loud voice, of the desolation and utter abolishment which await them if they do reject these things.
115 For if they do reject these things the hour of their judgment is nigh, and their house shall be left unto them desolate.
461
Claim
- The Civil War prophecy
Author's source(s) - No citation provided
461, 616n10
Claim
- The wicked "of this generation" would be swept from the face of the land and the Lost Ten tribes would be gathered within Joseph Smith's generation.
Author's source(s) - History of the Church, 1:315-316. Volume 1 link
461, 617n11
Claim
- The "City of Zion" would never "be moved" from its place in Missouri.
Author's source(s) Response
- D&C 97: 18-20
18 And, now, behold, if Zion do these things she shall prosper, and spread herself and become very glorious, very great, and very terrible.
19 And the nations of the earth shall honor her, and shall say: Surely Zion is the city of our God, and surely Zion cannot fall, neither be moved out of her place, for God is there, and the hand of the Lord is there;
20 And he hath sworn by the power of his might to be her salvation and her high tower.
461, 617n12
Claim
- The Latter-day Saints should retain their Missouri lands and seek legal redress. If they did not obtain it, then God would avenge them and destroy their adversaries. The book notes that "God will aveng them with 'ten thousand of his Saints' and all their adversaries would be destroyed."
Author's source(s) - History of the Church, vol. 1, 455.
- Quote in context:
Therefore, this is my counsel, that you retain your lands, even unto the uttermost, and employ every lawful means to seek redress of your enemies; and pray to God, day and night, to return you in peace and in safety to the lands of your inheritance: and when the judge fail you, appeal unto the executive; and when the executive fail you, appeal unto the president; and when the president fail you, and all laws fail you, and the humanity of the people fail you, and all things else fail you but God alone, and you continue to weary Him with your importunings, as the poor woman did the unjust judge, He will not fail to execute judgment upon your enemies, and to avenge His own elect that cry unto Him day and night.
Behold He will not fail you! He will come with ten thousand of His Saints, and all His adversaries shall be destroyed with the breath of His lips! All those who keep their inheritances, notwithstanding they should be beaten and driven, shall be likened unto the wise virgins who took oil in their lamps. But all those who are unbelieving and fearful, will be likened unto the foolish virgins, who took no oil in their lamps: and when they shall return and say unto the Saints, Give us of your lands—behold, there will be no room found for them. As respects giving deeds, I would advise you to give deeds as far as the brethren have legal and just claims for them, and then let every man answer to God for the disposal of them.
- Note the relationship to Jude 1:14-15:
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
462, 617n13
Claim
- Joseph is claimed to have prophesied that "within three years they should march to Jackson County and there should not be a dog to open his mouth against them."
Author's source(s) - Reed Peck, Reed Peck Manuscript, 3.
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
462, 617n14
Claim
- The United Order claimed through revelation to be "everlasting," "immutable and unchangeable," "until I [Jesus] come."
Author's source(s) Response
462, 617n15
Claim
- "I will fight your battles...the destroyer I have sent forth to destroy and lay waste mine enemies; and not many years hence they shall not be left to pollute mine heritage, and to blaspheme my name upon the lands which I have consecrated for the gathering together of my saints."
Author's source(s) Response
- The Saints saw this prophecy fulfilled by the bloody frontier battles of the Civil War that rested more heavily on Missouri than almost any other area.
- Civil War prophecy
- Attitude of Saints to Civil War prophecy
462, 617n16
Claim
- September 11, 1836 was "the appointed time for the redemption of Zion."
Author's source(s) - History of the Church, 2:145. Volume 2 link
462, 617n17
Claim
- "[T]he coming of the Lord, which is nigh—even fifty-six years should wind up the scene."
Author's source(s) - History of the Church, 2:182. Volume 2 link
463, 617n18
Claim
- Regarding Orson Hyde's trip to Jerusalem, "by thy hands shall the Most High do a great work, which shall prepare the way and greatly facilitate the gathering of that people." The author comments that Hyde "did nothing to facilitate the gathering of the Jews, which did not occur until over 100 years later."
Author's source(s) - Nephi Lowell Morris, Prophecies of Joseph Smith and their Fulfillment, 261.
- The statement from Joseph occurred around 1832 (see History of the Church, 4:375. Volume 4 link where Hyde dates this to "about nine years" before 1841).
- The author's grasp of Zionism and Israeli history is poor. European Jews began immigrating in large numbers to Palestine in 1882, and immigration was already increasing from the 1840s-1880s. The "gathering of the Jews" began well before the establishment of the state of Israel, as the author appears to believe (see [here]).
- The author does not believe that a dedication by Hyde has any effect, but he cannot prove that it did not, just as those with faith cannot prove that it did.
463, 617n19
Claim
- Joseph was sent to Salem, Massachusetts to receive "its wealth pertaining to gold and silver."
Author's source(s) Response
- Joseph was already in Salem when D&C 111 was received; he was not "sent" there, but went on his own. The promises about Salem from D&C 111 were for a later time, and the Saints saw them as fulfilled soon thereafter.
- Joseph Smith/Money digging/"Treasure hunting" trip to Salem
463, 617n20
Claim
- Thomas B. Marsh was told that he would be "exalted," and that he would preach "unto the ends of the earth."
Author's source(s) Response
463, 617n21
Claim
- David W. Patten was told that he needed to prepare to go on a mission "next spring...to testify of my name and bear glad tidings unto all the world."
Author's source(s) Response
- D&C 114 was not a prophecy, it was a mission call:
1 Verily thus saith the Lord: It is wisdom in my servant David W. Patten, that he settle up all his business as soon as he possibly can, and make a disposition of his merchandise, that he may perform a mission unto me next spring, in company with others, even twelve including himself, to testify of my name and bear glad tidings unto all the world.
463, 617n22
Claim
- Joseph is claimed to have prophesied that his enemies would be taken "in their own craftiness"
Author's source(s) Response
- D&C 121: 11-15
11 And they who do charge thee with transgression, their hope shall be blasted, and their prospects shall melt away as the hoar frost melteth before the burning rays of the rising sun;
12 And also that God hath set his hand and seal to change the times and seasons, and to blind their minds, that they may not understand his marvelous workings; that he may prove them also and take them in their own craftiness;
13 Also because their hearts are corrupted, and the things which they are willing to bring upon others, and love to have others suffer, may come upon themselves to the very uttermost;
14 That they may be disappointed also, and their hopes may be cut off;
15 And not many years hence, that they and their posterity shall be swept from under heaven, saith God, that not one of them is left to stand by the wall.
464, 617n23
Claim
- Referring to the Relief Society, Joseph said "I now prophecy that before ten years shall roll around, the queens of the earth shall come and pay their respects to this Society." The author points out: "No queens have ever fulfilled this prophecy."
Author's source(s) - D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 634.
- The author omits key qualifying statements from Joseph's prophecy: see Queens to pay respect to Relief Society within ten years?
- The author takes this from Quinn's chronology, but there is no additional context for the quote. There is no source listed by Quinn, and he likewise omits the qualifier to this prophecy.
464, 617n24
Claim
- The author claims that on Jan. 20, 1843 that Joseph Smith "prophesies that he and Orson Hyde will drink wine together in Palestine."
Author's source(s) - Joseph Smith, Manuscript Diary, under January 20, 1843, in Scott H. Faulring, ed., An American Prophet's Record: The Diaries and Journals of Joseph Smith, 294.
464, 617n25-26
Claim
- From History of the Church: "I prophesy in the name of the Lord God, and let it be written—the Son of Man will not come in the clouds of heaven till I am eighty-five years old." "[T]he 14th chapter of Revelation...'[T]he hour of His judgment is come.' And Hosea, 6th chapter. After...2520 years; which brings it to 1890."
Author's source(s) - History of the Church, 5:336. Volume 5 link
- The author omits Joseph's qualifying statements and uncertainty about what his revelation means.
- Second coming in 1890?
464, 617n27
Claim
- From History of the Church: "There are those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till Christ comes."
Author's source(s) - History of the Church, 5:336. Volume 5 link
- Second coming in 1890?
- Note too that Joseph said that were he going to prophesy, that is what he would say:
"Were I going to prophesy, I would say the end [of the world] would not come in 1844, 5, or 6, or in forty years. There are those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till Christ comes."
- This material immediately precedes material on the coming of Christ already mentioned above; it is clear from the context that Joseph was unclear about the date of the second coming of Christ.
464, 617n28
Claim
- From History of the Church: "I prophecy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left for their wickedness."
Author's source(s) - History of the Church, vol. 5, 394.
- Government to be overthrown and wasted
- Stephen A. Douglas prophecy
- Civil War prophecy
- Attitude of Saints to Civil War prophecy
465, 617n29
Claim
- "While discussing the petition to Congress, I prophesied, by virtue of the holy Priesthood vested in me, and in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that, if Congress will not hear our petition and grant us protection, they shall be broken up as a government, and god shall damn them. and there shall nothing be left of them—not even a grease spot."
Author's source(s) - Joseph Smith, MS, vol. 22, 455; cf. Faulring, under December 16, 1843, 432.
465, 617n30
Claim
- The book claims that on Feb. 6, 1844, Joseph Smith prophesied "that 5 years would not roll round before the company would all be able to live without cooking."
- Author's quote: Mormons are still cooking their food
Author's source(s) - Joseph Smith, Manuscript Diary, February 6, 1844, omitted from the History of the Church. Cited in D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 642.; cf. Faulring, 445.
- The author's conclusion is simply absurd.
- The 'company' referred to was the Twelve apostles and their wives, at dinner. It says nothing about all Mormons refraining from cooking.
- Those to whom the prophecy was addressed were soon to endure the privations of the migration to the west. At times they would have to go without fuel, and doubtless learned to subsist on fare that they would have turned down in the comforts of Nauvoo. Thus, Joseph's remarks (made "at supper...at the table") were probably prompted by the abundance of good food before them, which Joseph then prophesied they would not always have.[1]
465, 617n31
Claim
- The book claims that Joseph prophesied that his "unborn child" would be named David and would become "church president and king over Israel."
Author's source(s) - D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 644.
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
Notes
- ↑ The entry reads: "{p. 254} Tuesday, Feb[ruary] 6[th] [several lines left blank] Evening with Hyrum and Sidney and the 12 [Apostles] and the wives at John Taylor's at 5 P.M. at supper. Very pleasant time. I prophesied at the table that 5 years would not roll round before the company would all be able to live without cooking. [rest of page blank]" — Joseph Smith, An American Prophet's Record:The Diaries and Journals of Joseph Smith, edited by Scott Faulring, Significant Mormon Diaries Series No. 1, (Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, 1989), 445.