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It is important to note at the outset that Dan Vogel (a prominent advocate of this attempt to redefine the witnesses' testimonies) describes his approach as beginning | It is important to note at the outset that Dan Vogel (a prominent advocate of this attempt to redefine the witnesses' testimonies) describes his approach as beginning | ||
:"with the assumption that the Book of Mormon is not real history. Thus to the extent that one believes the evidence points to a non-historical Book of Mormon, it also points to something other than real gold plates under the cloth. The two are inseparably connected." | :"with the assumption that the Book of Mormon is not real history. Thus to the extent that one believes the evidence points to a non-historical Book of Mormon, it also points to something other than real gold plates under the cloth. The two are inseparably connected."<ref>Dan Vogel, "Bushman's ''Rough Stone Rolling'': Comments" ''John Whitmer Historical Association Journal'' 26 (September 2006): 322—325.</ref> | ||
Thus, Vogel must come up with a counter-explanation for the Book of Mormon. Having decided that the Book of Mormon cannot be true history, Vogel must ignore evidence which disproves his thesis, and manufacture evidence through speculation, rather than considering ''all'' the evidence and then drawing conclusions therefrom about both the reality of the Book of Mormon's history ''and'' the existence of the plates. As he notes, the two are connected. One cannot dismiss the eyewitness reports (some of whom reported that they saw more than just plates 'under the cloth,') as irrelevant to the question of the Book of Mormon's historicity and origins. | Thus, Vogel must come up with a counter-explanation for the Book of Mormon. Having decided that the Book of Mormon cannot be true history, Vogel must ignore evidence which disproves his thesis, and manufacture evidence through speculation, rather than considering ''all'' the evidence and then drawing conclusions therefrom about both the reality of the Book of Mormon's history ''and'' the existence of the plates. As he notes, the two are connected. One cannot dismiss the eyewitness reports (some of whom reported that they saw more than just plates 'under the cloth,') as irrelevant to the question of the Book of Mormon's historicity and origins. | ||
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Vogel and others attempt to argue that the witnesses only 'saw' the plates in a spiritual state, and then were allowed to heft a covered box. This flatly contradicts their own reports, and those of others. Lucy Mack Smith wrote: | Vogel and others attempt to argue that the witnesses only 'saw' the plates in a spiritual state, and then were allowed to heft a covered box. This flatly contradicts their own reports, and those of others. Lucy Mack Smith wrote: | ||
:In a few days we were follow by Joseph and Oliver and the Whitmers who came to make us a visit and also to make some arrangements about getting the book printed soon after they came They all that is the male part of the company repaired to a little grove where it was customary for the family to offer up their secret prayers. as Joseph had been instructed that the plates would be carried there by one of the ancient Nephites. Here it was that those 8 witnesses recorded in the Book of Mormon looked upon the plates and handled them of which they bear witness in the [title page of the Book of Mormon]. . . . After the witnesses returned to the house the Angel again made his appearance to Joseph and received the plates from his hands. We commenced holding meetings that night in the which we declared those facts that we knew to be true.{{ | :In a few days we were follow by Joseph and Oliver and the Whitmers who came to make us a visit and also to make some arrangements about getting the book printed soon after they came They all that is the male part of the company repaired to a little grove where it was customary for the family to offer up their secret prayers. as Joseph had been instructed that the plates would be carried there by one of the ancient Nephites. Here it was that those 8 witnesses recorded in the Book of Mormon looked upon the plates and handled them of which they bear witness in the [title page of the Book of Mormon]. . . . After the witnesses returned to the house the Angel again made his appearance to Joseph and received the plates from his hands. We commenced holding meetings that night in the which we declared those facts that we knew to be true.<ref>Preliminary manuscript, Family and Church History Department, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; cited in {{JBMS-14-1-5}}</ref> | ||
{{SeeAlso|Book_of_Mormon_witnesses/Spiritual_or_literal|l1=Literal experience|Book_of_Mormon_witnesses/Eight_witnesses|l2=Eight witnesses|Book_of_Mormon_witnesses/Other Book of Mormon witnesses|l3=Other witnesses}} | {{SeeAlso|Book_of_Mormon_witnesses/Spiritual_or_literal|l1=Literal experience|Book_of_Mormon_witnesses/Eight_witnesses|l2=Eight witnesses|Book_of_Mormon_witnesses/Other Book of Mormon witnesses|l3=Other witnesses}} | ||
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:Putnam observed that the only two colored metals from antiquity were gold and copper. An alloy of those two elements was called "tumbaga" by the Spaniards and was in common use in ancient tropical America for manufacturing precious objects. Putnam put forward the reasonable hypothesis that metal plates made in Mormon's day were of that material (the earliest Mesoamerican archaeological specimen of tumbaga—made from a hammered metal sheet—dates to the same century, the fifth century AD, when Moroni hid up the plates he had in his possession).[5] If Mormon's Book of Mormon plates were made of tumbaga, their weight would have been much less than had they been made of pure gold.<ref>See also {{Ensign1|author=Roy W. Doxey|article=[http://www.lds.org/ensign/1986/12/i-have-a-question?lang=eng I Have A Question: What was the approximate weight of the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated?]|date=December 1986|start=64}}</ref> Putnam made that point in mathematical detail and concluded that the total weight of the plates in Joseph Smith's charge would have been near the 60-pound figure reported by several witnesses. | :Putnam observed that the only two colored metals from antiquity were gold and copper. An alloy of those two elements was called "tumbaga" by the Spaniards and was in common use in ancient tropical America for manufacturing precious objects. Putnam put forward the reasonable hypothesis that metal plates made in Mormon's day were of that material (the earliest Mesoamerican archaeological specimen of tumbaga—made from a hammered metal sheet—dates to the same century, the fifth century AD, when Moroni hid up the plates he had in his possession).[5] If Mormon's Book of Mormon plates were made of tumbaga, their weight would have been much less than had they been made of pure gold.<ref>See also {{Ensign1|author=Roy W. Doxey|article=[http://www.lds.org/ensign/1986/12/i-have-a-question?lang=eng I Have A Question: What was the approximate weight of the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated?]|date=December 1986|start=64}}</ref> Putnam made that point in mathematical detail and concluded that the total weight of the plates in Joseph Smith's charge would have been near the 60-pound figure reported by several witnesses. | ||
:It is of interest that tumbaga was commonly gilded by applying citric acid to the surface. The resulting chemical reaction eliminated copper atoms from the outer .0006 inch of the surface, leaving a microscopic layer of 23-carat gold that made the object look like it was wholly gold. [6] Plates having "the appearance of gold," then, are exactly what we would expect if they were made of tumbaga.[7] [Footnote markers have been left in; references are available on the original site, | :It is of interest that tumbaga was commonly gilded by applying citric acid to the surface. The resulting chemical reaction eliminated copper atoms from the outer .0006 inch of the surface, leaving a microscopic layer of 23-carat gold that made the object look like it was wholly gold. [6] Plates having "the appearance of gold," then, are exactly what we would expect if they were made of tumbaga.[7] [Footnote markers have been left in; references are available on the original site, see footnote.]<ref>{{JBMS-10-1-15}}</ref> | ||
===Tin?=== | ===Tin?=== | ||
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The critics have made an ''ad hoc'' assumption that Joseph made plates out of tin. There is no known evidence to support this assertion, nor does it explain how skeptical witnesses were convinced that they were made of gold, rather than tin. This accusation is interesting, because it shows how desperate some critics are to discredit Joseph Smith, yet they cannot dismiss the repeated testimony that he had actual, physical plates which many witnesses concluded were of gold, and of ancient origin. | The critics have made an ''ad hoc'' assumption that Joseph made plates out of tin. There is no known evidence to support this assertion, nor does it explain how skeptical witnesses were convinced that they were made of gold, rather than tin. This accusation is interesting, because it shows how desperate some critics are to discredit Joseph Smith, yet they cannot dismiss the repeated testimony that he had actual, physical plates which many witnesses concluded were of gold, and of ancient origin. | ||
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{{FurtherReading}} | {{FurtherReading}} |
Answers portal |
Book of Mormon Witnesses |
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Overview: Three Witnesses:
View of the plates: Eight Witnesses: Other Witnesses: |
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It is claimed that:
To see citations to the critical sources for these claims, click here
Critics' attempts to argue that the witnesses only 'saw' the plates in a spiritual state flatly contradicts their own reports, and those of others. One cannot dismiss the eyewitness reports (some of whom reported that they saw more than just plates 'under the cloth,') as irrelevant to the question of the Book of Mormon's historicity and origins.
Both witness testimony and the material of which the plates were made indicates that the weight of the plates was 40-60 lbs, and not 200 lbs.
At least one critic has been desperate enough to suggest that tin plates were fabricated, although there is no evidence of this.
It is important to note at the outset that Dan Vogel (a prominent advocate of this attempt to redefine the witnesses' testimonies) describes his approach as beginning
Thus, Vogel must come up with a counter-explanation for the Book of Mormon. Having decided that the Book of Mormon cannot be true history, Vogel must ignore evidence which disproves his thesis, and manufacture evidence through speculation, rather than considering all the evidence and then drawing conclusions therefrom about both the reality of the Book of Mormon's history and the existence of the plates. As he notes, the two are connected. One cannot dismiss the eyewitness reports (some of whom reported that they saw more than just plates 'under the cloth,') as irrelevant to the question of the Book of Mormon's historicity and origins.
Vogel does not seem to realize it, but the difficulty which he has in coming up with plausible explanations for the physical plates and the testimonies of the eight witnesses is evidence for the reality of the Book of Mormon. But, that conclusion is unacceptable to him, so he must downplay the evidence for the physical plates.
Vogel and others attempt to argue that the witnesses only 'saw' the plates in a spiritual state, and then were allowed to heft a covered box. This flatly contradicts their own reports, and those of others. Lucy Mack Smith wrote:
Oliver Cowdery described the plates as found by Joseph:
The Journal of Book of Mormon Studies states:
The critics have made an ad hoc assumption that Joseph made plates out of tin. There is no known evidence to support this assertion, nor does it explain how skeptical witnesses were convinced that they were made of gold, rather than tin. This accusation is interesting, because it shows how desperate some critics are to discredit Joseph Smith, yet they cannot dismiss the repeated testimony that he had actual, physical plates which many witnesses concluded were of gold, and of ancient origin.
Notes
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