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{{MormonThinkIndexClaim | {{MormonThinkIndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |claim=Although Moroni is commonly believed to have instructed young Joseph on where the plates were in Hill Cumorah, there is evidence that he found the plates using a seer stone that he had previously used for treasure-seeking. | ||
|think= | |think= | ||
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Revision as of 15:21, 27 April 2012
A FAIR Analysis of "Translation"
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
This image was in the Oct 2006 issue of The Ensign which shows both Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery at the same table with the plates in full view of both of them, which is not what is generally taught in the Church, but perhaps is what is now being promoted.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Joseph claimed to see in the darkened hat the words he dictated....When Joseph was asked how exactly he translated the Book of Mormon, he would never give any details. He would only say that he did it by the 'gift and power of God'.
FairMormon commentary
- More accurately, Joseph's associates claimed that he would see words in the darkened hat. Joseph never claimed that.
- One person to give this type of description was David Whitmer in 1887 in his pamphlet "An Address to All Believers in Christ." This was published 57 years after the Book of Mormon was translated and published.
Quotes to consider
- David Whitmer said, ""I will now give you a description of the manner in which the Book of Mormon was translated. Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man." (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, 1887 Wikisource) Lazy citation: The citation given by MormonThink points to an anti-Mormon website Mormons in Transition from which they simply copied the source text. FAIR has included a link to a copy of the actual primary source An Address to All Believers in Christ.
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Most LDS are somewhat aware that Joseph Smith did some treasure seeking in his younger days. A following statement is sometimes quoted in church. This comes from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.120: "Q: 'Was Joseph Smith not a money digger?' 'Yes, but it was not a very profitable job for him, as he only got fourteen dollars a month for it.'" This is usually the only thing said at church regarding his treasure-seeking past.
FairMormon commentary
- Did you know that this quote came from Joseph Smith himself? (he is talking about himself in the third-person.)
- Don't we hear in Church about Joseph helping Josiah Stowel search for a lost mine sometimes?
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
The following describes Joseph's treasure seeking for Josiah Stowel. It is from Joseph Smith's 1826 court transcript when he was brought up on charges as a disorderly person and imposter.
FairMormon commentary
Additional information
- 1826 trial for "glasslooking"—Joseph Smith was brought to trial in 1826 for "glasslooking." Didn't Hugh Nibley claim that if this trial record existed that it would be "the most damning evidence in existence against Joseph Smith?" (Link)
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Critic's Comment: Joseph never found any treasure for the men that hired him to find treasure using his seer stones. However, he was able to convince them he had the ability by describing things on Josiah Stowel's property such as his house, outhouses and a painted tree. Obviously he could have found out about these things without having special abilities. Also, it's very easy to plant a tail feather to prove he could 'see' distant things in his stone. When it came to treasure, he would always seem to have an excuse as to why they couldn't find the treasure even though he saw it in his stone. Often Smith would say that the treasure kept sinking further into the ground as they dug or that the spirits of dead Indians were guarding the treasure and wouldn't let anyone have it.
FairMormon commentary
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
What is particularly disturbing about this incident is the timing of the charges. The court records that were found prove that Joseph was involved in treasure seeking with a seer stone for profit after he received the First Vision but before he translated the Book of Mormon. This puts Joseph in a new light. It would seem that his belief in magic and seer stones was motivated more by profit and superstition rather than a sincere desire to bring forth the restoration. It would be very unlikely that the chosen prophet of the restoration would engage in such activities after conversing with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ as well as the Angel Moroni. Would he really be doing such activities a year before he dug up the golden plates, after he had met with the angel Moroni for each of the prior three years?
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Joseph Smith claimed that when he was a teenager, in 1823, that an American Indian by the name of Moroni, who had died over 1000 years ago, visited him in his bedroom at night. The Indian told Joseph that there was a cache of items buried together in a hill near Joseph's house.
FairMormon commentary
- Joseph never claimed that Moroni was "an American Indian."
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
Although Moroni is commonly believed to have instructed young Joseph on where the plates were in Hill Cumorah, there is evidence that he found the plates using a seer stone that he had previously used for treasure-seeking.
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary
On their old website, MormonThink claims...
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On their old website, MormonThink claims...
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On their old website, MormonThink claims...
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On their old website, MormonThink claims...
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On their old website, MormonThink claims...
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On their old website, MormonThink claims...
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On their old website, MormonThink claims...
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On their old website, MormonThink claims...
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On their old website, MormonThink claims...
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On their old website, MormonThink claims...
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On their old website, MormonThink claims...
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On their old website, MormonThink claims...
FairMormon commentary