The Hill Cumorah

FAIR Answers—back to home page

Answers portal
Book of Mormon Geography
RESOURCES
Geography: Book of Mormon Geography LDS statements Old World New World Hemispheric Limited Plates to New York? Great Lakes? Lists of models DNA: Geography and DNA Haplotype X2A? DNA Wiki articles Archaeology: Archaeology and the Bible Archaeology and Book of Mormon Hill Cumorah archaeology Smithsonian Lamanites in North America: D&C Lamanites Borders of the Lamanites Other: "Anachronisms" Zelph Comoros Islands and Moroni
PERSPECTIVES
MEDIA
OTHER PORTALS
Book of Mormon DNA and Book of Mormon

This page is based on an answer to a question submitted to the FAIR web site, or a frequently asked question.

Questions

• If Mormon chapter 6 is a literal description of the destruction of the Nephites by the Lamanites — approximately 100 thousand were killed by swords and axes — why hasn't any evidence of the battle been found at the site the Church identifies as hill Cumorah in western New York state?
• If Joseph Smith returned the gold plates to a cave in the Hill Cumorah, why is there no evidence of this cave?

To see citations to the critical sources for these claims, [[../CriticalSources|click here]]

Answer

There are a couple of incorrect assumptions in this question.

Where is the hill Cumorah?

First, it is not the case that the Church authoritatively identifies the drumlin in western New York as the same Hill Cumorah mentioned in the text of the Book of Mormon. The Church has made it abundantly clear that it does not endorse any particular view of Book of Mormon geography.(See: Statements about Book of Mormon geography)

While we call the drumlin in New York "Hill Cumorah" based on a usage initiated early in Church history (probably by Oliver Cowdery or W. W. Phelps),^[1] that does not necessarily make the two hills the same. Most LDS scholars do not think they are the same, because the New York drumlin does not meet the textual requirements for the geographic placement of the hill in relation to the narrow neck of land.^[2] The views of these scholars is that the text requires a relatively short distance between Cumorah and the neck of land. David A. Palmer's criteria for the Ancient Cumorah have historically supplied some of the basis for the way most scholars understand the Book of Mormon description of Cumorah.^[3] Scholars in support of those same ideas have built upon his work, and have added their ideas to the mix over the years.

On the other hand, arguments have been made to the contrary. For example, Andrew H. Hedges (of the Joseph Smith Papers Project, who was a professor of Church History and Doctrine at Brigham Young University) has documented his views.^[4] (Matt Roper provided a response to Hedges' article).^[5] Edwin Goble has also documented his opinions on these points.^[6] These views are in support of the more traditional view of a significant distance between the neck of land and the ancient Hill Cumorah. These views provide some balance to the question of the distance between those two critical landmarks, and the other criteria in the Book of Mormon text for the Hill Cumorah.

For further information compare the two major Book of Mormon geography models:

• Hemispheric geography theory (HGT)
• Limited geography theory (LGT)

Also note that the Book of Mormon does not state that the plates of Mormon were buried in the Cumorah; in fact, it states that the plates were not buried in Cumorah at that time, but were given to Moroni to safeguard until it came time for them to be put in their ultimate place of deposit:

"And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon...made this record [the plates of Mormon] out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save [except] it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni." (Mormon 6꞉6) (emphasis added)

Some have used this scripture to support the view that the New York drumlin is not the same hill as the place of the Nephite destruction (since that is the majority view among scholars). While that is one plausible view based on this scripture, that point is left ambiguous. Because it does not comment on the burial of the plates of Mormon decades later, it does not say anything one way or the other on that point with confidence.^[7] It does establish beyond doubt that the burial place of the rest of the plates from the people of the Nephites were buried at the hill where the Nephite destruction took place, the actual ancient Cumorah.

This took place in approximately A.D. 385. Moroni did not bury the plates of Mormon until A.D. 421. During this 36-year period Moroni explained:

"[The Lamanites] put to death every Nephite that will not deny the Christ. And I, Moroni, will not deny the Christ; wherefore, I wander whithersoever I can for the safety of mine own life." (Moroni 1:3)

During that 36-year wandering to escape the Lamanites, it seems likely that he could have traveled a great distance. If the Nephite Cumorah was not in New York, Moroni could easily have eventually come to modern New York state where he buried the plates. On the other hand, he could have easily remained in the general area of the Nephite destruction in his wanderings.

Large population counts in the scriptures

A second questionable premise is that the numbers recited in the text should be understood as accurate in the same sense we would understand those numbers today. Ancient militaristic texts, including those of the Bible, frequently exaggerated the numbers involved in battle for their own propagandistic purposes, or to simply convey the general concept of 'a very large number'. Very large numbers in the scriptures should always be taken with a grain of salt, since ancient authors (having their own purposes and approach) did not use such terms with the same precision as a modern military historian.

It has also been noted that "so-and-so and his 10,000" may use the term "10,000" as a designation for a millitary unit. Roman armies had "centuries" (or centuria) which were lead by a "centurian," which implies a hundred men. While such units originally had 100 men, the normal size of such units (even at full strength) was only 60–80 men.^[8]

Interestingly, at the time of the Spanish Conquest, Bernal Diaz described Tlascalan armies in the same terms:

Of the followers of the old Xicotenga . . . there were ten thousand; of another great chief named Moseescaci there were another ten thousand; of a third, who was called Chichimecatecle, there were as many more...^[9]

Without further information, it is difficult to know whether the Book of Mormon uses the term literally, in a symbolic/propagandist sense to convey a great number of dead, or as a technical millitary term familiar to Mormon and Moroni but opaque to the modern reader.

Is there a cave in the Hill Cumorah containing the Nephite records?

On June 17, 1877, Brigham Young related the following at a conference:

I believe I will take the liberty to tell you of another circumstance that will be as marvelous as anything can be. This is an incident in the life of Oliver Cowdery, but he did not take the liberty of telling such things in meeting as I take. I tell these things to you, and I have a motive for doing so. I want to carry them to the ears of my brethren and sisters, and to the children also, that they may grow to an understanding of some things that seem to be entirely hidden from the human family. Oliver Cowdery went with the Prophet Joseph when he deposited these plates. Joseph did not translate all of the plates; there was a portion of them sealed, which you can learn from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants. When Joseph got the plates, the angel instructed him to carry them back to the hill Cumorah, which he did. Oliver says that when Joseph and Oliver went there, the hill opened, and they walked into a cave, in which there was a large and spacious room. He says he did not think, at the time, whether they had the light of the sun or artificial light; but that it was just as light as day. They laid the plates on a table; it was a large table that stood in the room. Under this table there was a pile of plates as much as two feet high, and there were altogether in this room more plates than probably many wagon loads; they were piled up in the corners and along the walls. The first time they went there the sword of Laban hung upon the wall; but when they went again it had been taken down and laid upon the table across the gold plates; it was unsheathed, and on it was written these words: "This sword will never be sheathed again until the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our God and his Christ." ^[10]

There are at least ten second hand accounts describing the story of the cave in Cumorah, however, Joseph Smith himself did not record the incident. ^[11] As mentioned previously, the Hill Cumorah located in New York state is a drumlin: this means it is a pile of gravel scraped together by an ancient glacier. The geologic unlikelihood of a cave existing within the hill such as the one described suggests that the experience related by the various witnesses was most likely a vision, or a divine transportation to another locale (as with Nephi's experience in 1 Nephi 11꞉1). John Tvedtnes supports this view:

The story of the cave full of plates inside the Hill Cumorah in New York is often given as evidence that it is, indeed, the hill where Mormon hid the plates. Yorgason quotes one version of the story from Brigham Young and alludes to six others collected by Paul T. Smith. Unfortunately, none of the accounts is firsthand. The New York Hill Cumorah is a moraine laid down anciently by a glacier in motion. It is comprised of gravel and earth. Geologically, it is impossible for the hill to have a cave, and all those who have gone in search of the cave have come back empty-handed. If, therefore, the story attributed to Oliver Cowdery (by others) is true, then the visits to the cave perhaps represent visions, perhaps of some far distant hill, not physical events.^[12]

The Book of Mormon text does not describe the compartment in the hill as a "cave." This word is only used in references to it outside the text of the Book of Mormon itself. Edwin Goble points out that some Adena mounds in the Eastern United States contain burial chambers. He suggests that this is a precedent in the archaeology of the general area of the New York drumlin, making the idea of a man-made chamber for the ancient records a plausible suggestion.^[13] Whatever the case, a natural cave could not exist there.

Given that the angel Moroni had retrieved the plates from Joseph several times previously, it is not unreasonable to assume that he was capable of transporting them to a different location than the hill in New York. As Tvedtnes states, "If they could truly be moved about, why not from Mexico, for example?" ^[14]

== Notes ==

1. [note]  Rex C. Reeve, Jr., and Richard O. Cowan, "The Hill Called Cumorah," in Regional Studies in LDS History: New York and Pennsylvania, edited by Larry C. Porter, Milton V. Backman, Jr., and Susan Easton Black (Provo, Utah: Department Church History and Doctrine, Brigham Young University, 1992), 71–89 (see especially pp. 73–74). GL direct link
2. [note]  See, for example, Sidney B. Sperry, "Were There Two Cumorahs?," Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 4/1 (1995). [260–268] link. See also discussion on FAIR Wiki here.
3. [note]  David A. Palmer, In Search of Cumorah, Horizon Publishers & Distributors (February 2005)
4. [note]  Andrew H. Hedges, Cumorah and the Limited Mesoamerican Theory in Religious Educator 10, no. 2 (2009): 111–134 off-site
5. [note]  Matt Roper's response to Hedges, entitled Plausibility, Probability, and the Cumorah Question in Religious Educator, Vol 10, No 2 (2009): 135-158 off-site
6. [note]  Edwin Goble, Resurrecting Cumorah, Second Revised Edition, May 2011
7. [note]  Edwin Goble, Resurrecting Cumorah, Second Revised Edition, May 2011, pp. 77-81
8. [note] A. Brent Merrill, "Nephite Captains and Armies," in Ricks and Hamblin, eds., Warfare in the Book of Mormon (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book and FARMS, 1990), 270. Reference cited is Graham Webster, The Roman Imperial Army (New York: Funk and Wagnalls, 1969). GL direct link
9. [note] Bernal Diaz del Castillo, The Bernal Diaz Chronicles, trans. and ed. A. Idell (Garden City, New York: Doubleday, 1956), 161–162, 110, 103; cited in John L. Sorenson, An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon (Salt Lake City, Utah : Deseret Book Co. ; Provo, Utah : Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, 1996 [1985]), 263. GL direct link
10. [note] Brigham Young, "TRYING TO BE SAINTS, etc.," (June 17, 1877) Journal of Discourses 19:38.
11. [note] Cameron J. Packer, "Cumorah's Cave," Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 13/1 (2004). [50–57] link
12. [note] John A. Tvedtnes, "Review of Little Known Evidences of the Book of Mormon by Brenton G. Yorgason," FARMS Review of Books 2/1 (1990): 258–259. off-site
13. [note]  Edwin Goble, Resurrecting Cumorah, Second Revised Edition, May 2011, pp. 110-111
14. [note] John A. Tvedtnes, "Review of Little Known Evidences of the Book of Mormon by Brenton G. Yorgason," FARMS Review of Books 2/1 (1990): 258–259. off-site

Further reading

FairMormon Answers articles

• Book of Mormon demographics
• Template:BoMGeographyWiki

FairMormon web site

• FairMormon Topical Guide: Book of Mormon Geography FairMormon link
  

External links

Print material