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Book of Mormon/Gold plates: Difference between revisions
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:In a few days we were follow by Joseph and Oliver and the whitmers who came to make us a visit and also to make some arrangements about getting the book printed soon after they came They all that is the male part of the company repaired to a little grove where it was customary for the family to offer up their secret prayers. as Joseph had been instructed that the plates would be carried there by one of the ancient Nephites. Here it was that those 8 witnesses recorded in the Book of Mormon looked upon the plates and handled them of which they bear witness in the [title page of the Book of Mormon]. . . . After the witnesses returned to the house the Angel again made his appearance to Joseph and received the plates from his hands.  We commenced holding meetings that night in the which we declared those facts that we knew to be true.{{ref|lms1}}
:In a few days we were follow by Joseph and Oliver and the whitmers who came to make us a visit and also to make some arrangements about getting the book printed soon after they came They all that is the male part of the company repaired to a little grove where it was customary for the family to offer up their secret prayers. as Joseph had been instructed that the plates would be carried there by one of the ancient Nephites. Here it was that those 8 witnesses recorded in the Book of Mormon looked upon the plates and handled them of which they bear witness in the [title page of the Book of Mormon]. . . . After the witnesses returned to the house the Angel again made his appearance to Joseph and received the plates from his hands.  We commenced holding meetings that night in the which we declared those facts that we knew to be true.{{ref|lms1}}


''For further information see:'' [[Book_of_Mormon_witnesses:Eight_witnesses|Eight witnesses]], [[Book_of_Mormon_witnesses:Other Book of Mormon witnesses|Other witnesses]]
''For further information see:'' [[Book_of_Mormon_witnesses:Spiritual_or_literal|Literal experience]], [[Book_of_Mormon_witnesses:Eight_witnesses|Eight witnesses]], [[Book_of_Mormon_witnesses:Other Book of Mormon witnesses|Other witnesses]]


===Descriptions of the plates===
===Descriptions of the plates===

Revision as of 21:17, 27 November 2006

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Criticism

Critics claim that Joseph manufactured some metal plates (out of tin) to trick witnesses into thinking he had gold plates.

Source(s) of the Criticism

Source(s) of the criticism
Critical sources
  • “Martin Harris, the Mormon,” Rochester Daily Democrat (New York) (23 June 1841). off-site
    Reports Martin Harris' murder, and implies this may be to silence him from renouncing his witness.
    • Painesville Telegraph (Ohio) (30 June 1841). off-site
      Rebuts the claims of Martin's death.
  • “Extraordinary Imposition of the ‘Latter Day Saints’—Mormonism—Matter for the Consideration of every good citizen—Important Facts—All should feel that they have a direct interest in them. From the Saturday Courier,” Western Recorder (Zanesville, Ohio) (21 July 1841). off-site
  • Richard Abanes, Becoming Gods: A Closer Look at 21st-Century Mormonism (Harvest House Publishers: 2005). 62, 361 n. 69-72. ( Index of claims ) (Sources: Palmer)
  • Origen Bachelor, Mormonism Exposed Internally and Externally (New York: Privately Published, 1838), 5–7. off-site
  • “Mormonism—No. III,” Ezra Booth to Rev. I. Eddy, 24 October 1831 Ohio Star (Ravenna, Ohio) (27 October 1831). off-site
  • Origen Bachelor, Mormonism Exposed Internally and Externally (New York: Privately Published, 1838), 36–37. off-site
  • Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1945), Chapter 5. ( Index of claims )
  • Henry Caswall, The Prophet of the Nineteenth Century, or, the Rise, Progress, and Present State of the Mormons, or Latter-Day Saints : To Which Is Appended an Analysis of the Book of Mormon (London: Printed for J. G. F. & J. Rivington, 1843), 46–47. off-site
  • John A. Clark, “Gleanings by the way. No. VI,” Episcopal Recorder (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) (5 September 1840): 94. off-site
  • John A. Clark, “Gleanings by the Way. No. VII,” Episcopal Recorder (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) 18, no. 25 (12 September 1840), n.p.. off-site
  • John A. Clark, “Gleanings by the Way No. X,” Episcopal Recorder (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) (10 October 1840): 114-115. off-site
  • Contender Ministries, Questions All Mormons Should Ask Themselves. Answers
  • Samuel Haining, Mormonism Weighed in the Balances of the Sanctuary, and Found Wanting: The Substance of Four Lectures (Douglas: Robert Fargher, 1840), 45. off-site
  • Eber D. Howe, Mormonism Unvailed (Painesville, OH, 1834), 13–. (Affidavits examined) off-site
  • James H. Hunt, Mormonism: Embracing the Origin, Rise and Progress of the Sect (St. Louis: Ustick and Davies, 1844), 7-11, 58-67. off-site
  • E. G. Lee, The Mormons, or Knavery Exposed (Frankford, Philadelphia: Webber & Fenimore, 1841), 1. off-site Full title
  • Richard Livesey, An Exposure of Mormonism, being a statement of facts relating to the self-styled “Latter day Saints,” and the Origin of the Book of Mormon (Preston: J. Livesey, 1838), 2. off-site
  • Walter Martin, The Kingdom of the Cults (Revised) (Minneapolis: Bethany House Publishers, 1997), 204. ( Index of claims )
  • Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson, Mormonism 101. Examining the Religion of the Latter-day Saints (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Books, 2000), Chapter 8. ( Index of claims )
  • Grant H. Palmer, An Insider's View of Mormon Origins (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 2002) Chapter 6. ( Index of claims )
  • Parley P. Pratt to Oliver Cowdery, 26 May 1836, "[No title]," Latter Day Saints' Messenger and Advocate 2 no. 8 (May 1836), 318–20. off-site
    Discusses Pratt's missionary encounter with this criticism.
  • La Roy Sunderland, “Mormonism,” Zion’s Watchman (New York) 3, no. 9 (3 March 1838): 34, citing Howe. off-site
  • Jerald and Sandra Tanner, The Changing World of Mormonism (Moody Press, 1979), 94–97, 108.( Index of claims )
  • Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 3:464–472.
  • Dan Vogel, Joseph Smith: The Making of a Prophet (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 2004), 466–469
  • Dan Vogel, "The Validity of the Witnesses' Testimonies," in American Apocrypha, ed. Dan Vogel and Brent Lee Metcalfe (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 2002), 79–121.
  • William S. West, A Few Interesting Facts, Respecting the Rise Progress and Pretensions of the Mormons (1837), 15-16. off-site
    Saw plates "only in their imagination."
Past responses

Response

See also: article on Metal plates

Controlling biases

It is important to note at the outset that Dan Vogel (a prominent advocate of this attempt to redefine the witnesses' testimonies) describes his approach as beginning

"with the assumption that the Book of Mormon is not real history. Thus to the extent that one believes the evidence points to a non-historical Book of Mormon, it also points to something other than real gold plates under the cloth. The two are inseparably connected."[1]

Thus, Vogel must come up with a counter-explanation for the Book of Mormon. Having decided that the Book of Mormon cannot be true history, Vogel must ignore evidence which disproves his thesis, and manufacture evidence through speculation, rather than considering all the evidence and then drawing conclusions therefrom about both the reality of the Book of Mormon's history and the existence of the plates. As he notes, the two are connected. One cannot dismiss the eyewitness reports (some of whom reported that they saw more than just plates 'under the cloth,' as Vogel attempts to distort the historical record) as irrelevant to the question of the Book of Mormon's historicity and origins.

Vogel does not seem to realize it, but the difficulty which he has in coming up with plausible explanations for the physical plates and the testimonies of the eight witnesses is evidence for the reality of the Book of Mormon. But, that conclusion is unacceptable to him, so he must disregard the evidence for the physical plates.

Only a "spiritual vision"?

Vogel and others attempt to argue that the witnesses only 'saw' the plates in a spiritual state, and then were allowed to heft a covered box. This flatly contradicts their own reports, and those of others. Lucy Mack Smith wrote:

In a few days we were follow by Joseph and Oliver and the whitmers who came to make us a visit and also to make some arrangements about getting the book printed soon after they came They all that is the male part of the company repaired to a little grove where it was customary for the family to offer up their secret prayers. as Joseph had been instructed that the plates would be carried there by one of the ancient Nephites. Here it was that those 8 witnesses recorded in the Book of Mormon looked upon the plates and handled them of which they bear witness in the [title page of the Book of Mormon]. . . . After the witnesses returned to the house the Angel again made his appearance to Joseph and received the plates from his hands. We commenced holding meetings that night in the which we declared those facts that we knew to be true.[2]

For further information see: Literal experience, Eight witnesses, Other witnesses

Descriptions of the plates

A variety of persons who handled and/or saw the plates left descriptions:[3]

Material

  • "the appearance of gold"[4] — Joseph Smith Jr., Eight Witnesses
  • "golden plates"[5] — David Whitmer
  • "a mixture of gold and copper"[6] - William Smith

Weight

  • "weighing altogether from forty to sixty lbs."[7] —Martin Harris
  • "I was permitted to lift them. . . . They weighed about sixty pounds according to the best of my judgement."[8] —William Smith
  • "I . . . judged them to have weighed about sixty pounds."[9]—William Smith
  • "They were much heavier than a stone, and very much heavier than wood. . . . As near as I could tell, about sixty pounds."[10] —William Smith
  • "I hefted the plates, and I knew from the heft that they were lead or gold."[11] —Martin Harris
  • "My daughter said, they were about as much as she could lift. They were now in the glass-box, and my wife said they were very heavy. They both lifted them."[12] —Martin Harris
  • "I moved them from place to place on the table, as it was necessary in doing my work."[13] —Emma Smith
  • Joseph's sister Catherine, while she was dusting in the room where he had been translating, "hefted those plates [which were covered with a cloth] and found them very heavy."[14] —H. S. Salisbury, paraphrasing Catherine Smith Salisbury

Size of each plate

  • "six inches wide by eight inches long"[15] —Joseph Smith Jr.
  • "seven inches wide by eight inches in length"[16] —Martin Harris
  • "seven by eight inches"[17] —Martin Harris
  • "about eight inches long, seven inches wide"[18] —David Whitmer

Thickness of each plate

  • "of the thickness of plates of tin"[19] —Martin Harris
  • "thin leaves of gold"[20] —Martin Harris
  • "about as thick as parchment"[21] —David Whitmer
  • "[We] could raise the leaves this way (raising a few leaves of the Bible before him)."[22] —William Smith
  • "They seemed to be pliable like thick paper, and would rustle with a metalic [sic] sound when the edges were moved by the thumb, as one does sometimes thumb the edges of a book."[23] —Emma Smith

Thickness of whole volume

  • "[W]hen piled one above the other, they were altogether about four inches thick."[24] —Martin Harris
  • JS - 6 inches? [citation needed]

Sealed vs. unsealed

  • "A large portion of the leaves were so securely bound together that it was impossible to separate them."[25] —David Whitmer
  • "What there was sealed appeared as solid to my view as wood. About the half of the book was sealed."[26] —David Whitmer

Rings

  • "[T]hey were fastened with rings thus [a sketch shows a ring in the shape of a capital D with six lines drawn through the straight side of the letter to represent the leaves of the record]."[27] —David Whitmer
  • "bound together like the leaves of a book by massive rings passing through the back edges"[28] —David Whitmer
  • "They were bound together in the shape of a book by three gold rings."[29] —David Whitmer
  • "put together on the back by three silver rings, so that they would open like a book"[30] —Martin Harris
  • "The plates were . . . connected with rings in the shape of the letter D, which facilitated the opening and shutting of the book."[31] - William E. McLellin quoting Hyrum Smith
  • "I could tell they were plates of some kind and that they were fastened together by rings running through the back."[32] - William Smith

It should be noted that the "D" shape here described is the most efficient way to pack pages with rings. It is a common design in modern three-ring binders, but was not invented until recently (the two-ring binder did not exist prior to 1854 and were first advertised in 1899. The critics would apparently have us believe that Joseph Smith and/or the witnesses just happened upon the most efficient binding design more than a century before anyone else! Such a pattern also matches a collection of gold plates found in Bavaria dating from 600 B.C.[33]

Engravings

  • "[The plates] were filled with . . . Egyptian characters. . . . The characters on the unsealed part were small, and beautifully engraved. The whole book exhibited many marks of antiquity in its construction and much skill in the art of engraving."[34] —Joseph Smith Jr.
  • "There were fine engravings on both sides."[35] —John Whitmer
  • "We also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship."[36] —Eight Witnesses
  • "[T]he characters . . . were cut into the plates with some sharp instrument."[37] —William Smith

Tin?

 [needs work]

Endnotes

  1. [note] Dan Vogel, "Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling: Comments" John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 26 (September 2006): 322—325.
  2. [note]  Preliminary manuscript, Family and Church History Department, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; cited in Richard Lloyd Anderson, "Attempts to Redefine the Experience of the Eight Witnesses," Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 14/1 (2005). [18–] link
  3. [note]  Many of these were collected in Kirk B. Henrichsen, "How Witnesses Described the 'Gold Plates'," Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 10/1 (2001). [16–21] link (Key source)
  4. [note] Joseph Smith Jr., "Church History [also known as the Wentworth Letter]," Times and Seasons (1 March 1842), 707. off-site GospeLink ; "The Testimony of Eight Witnesses," Book of Mormon; and Orson Pratt, in a pamphlet titled "An Interesting Account of Several Remarkable Visions, and of the Late Discovery of Ancient American Records" (Edinburgh, Scotland: Ballantyne and Hughes, May 1840), 12–13.
  5. [note]  David Whitmer interview, Kansas City Journal, 5 June 1881, in David Whitmer Interviews: A Restoration Witness, ed. Lyndon W. Cook (Orem, Utah: Grandin, 1993), 60.
  6. [note]  William Smith (Joseph's younger brother) interview, The Saints' Herald, 4 October 1884, 644.
  7. [note]  Martin Harris interview, Iowa State Register, August 1870, as quoted in Milton V. Backman Jr., Eyewitness Accounts of the Restoration (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1986), 226.
  8. [note]  William Smith, William Smith on Mormonism (Lamoni, Iowa: Herald Steam, 1883), 12.
  9. [note]  William Smith interview with E. C. Briggs. Originally written by J. W. Peterson for Zions Ensign (Independence, Mo.); reprinted in Deseret Evening News, 20 January 1894, 11.
  10. [note]  William Smith interview, The Saints' Herald, 4 October 1884, 644.
  11. [note]  "Interview with Martin Harris," Tiffany's Monthly, May 1859, 169.
  12. [note]  Ibid., 168.
  13. [note]  Emma Smith interview, published as "Last Testimony of Sister Emma," The Saints' Herald, 1 October 1879.
  14. [note]  I. B. Bell interview with H. S. Salisbury (grandson of Catherine Smith Salisbury), Historical Department Archives, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
  15. [note]  Joseph Smith Jr., "Church History [also known as the Wentworth Letter]," Times and Seasons (1 March 1842), 707. off-site GospeLink
  16. [note]  Martin Harris interview, Tiffany's Monthly, May 1859, 165.
  17. [note]  Martin Harris interview, Iowa State Register, August 1870, as quoted in Backman, Eyewitness Accounts, 226.
  18. [note]  David Whitmer interview, Chicago Tribune, 24 January 1888, in David Whitmer Interviews, ed. Cook, 221.
  19. [note]  Martin Harris interview, Tiffany's Monthly, May 1859, 165.
  20. [note]  Martin Harris interview, Iowa State Register, August 1870, as quoted in Backman, Eyewitness Accounts, 226.
  21. [note]  David Whitmer interview, Kansas City Journal, 5 June 1881, in David Whitmer Interviews, ed. Cook, 64.
  22. [note]  William Smith, The Saints' Herald, 4 October 1884, 644.
  23. [note]  Emma Smith interview, The Saints' Herald, 1 October 1879.
  24. [note]  Martin Harris interview, Tiffany's Monthly, May 1859, 165.
  25. [note]  David Whitmer interview, Chicago Tribune, 24 January 1888, in David Whitmer Interviews, ed. Cook, 221.
  26. [note]  David Whitmer interview, Deseret Evening News, 16 August 1878, in David Whitmer Interviews, ed. Cook, 20–21.
  27. [note]  David Whitmer interview, Edward Stevenson diary, 22–23 December 1877, Historical Department Archives, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Original capitalization and punctuation have been modernized. In Stevenson's interview, Whitmer recounted his mother's description of the rings.
  28. [note]  David Whitmer interview, Kansas City Journal, 5 June 1881, 1.
  29. [note]  David Whitmer interview, Chicago Tribune, 24 January 1888, in David Whitmer Interviews, ed. Cook, 221.
  30. [note]  Martin Harris interview, Tiffany's Monthly, May 1859, 165.
  31. [note]  Reported in the Huron Reflector (Norwalk, OH), 31 October 1831; cited in Ashton, below.
  32. [note]  Interview of William Smith with E. C. Briggs and J. W. Peterson, Zion's Ensign, 13 January 1894, 6.
  33. [note]  Warren P. Ashton, "The Rings That Bound the Gold Plates Together," Insights 26 no. 3 (2006), N/A.
  34. [note]  Joseph Smith Jr., "Church History" (Wentworth Letter)
  35. [note]  John Whitmer to Theodore Turley, "in the presence of his anti-Mormon friends." As reported in Richard Lloyd Anderson, Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1981), 131. ISBN 0877478465.
  36. [note]  "Testimony of the Eight Witnesses."
  37. [note]  William Smith interview, The Saints' Herald, 4 October 1884, 644.

Further Reading

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