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Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 11: Difference between revisions
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*The authors make an anecdotal claim that "[s]ome Latter-day Saints have felt that moral lapses in obedience can be overcome in the next life. Such thinking undermines the LDS concept of a mortal probation. They then quote several LDS leaders and the Book of Mormon to support this position. | *The authors make an anecdotal claim that "[s]ome Latter-day Saints have felt that moral lapses in obedience can be overcome in the next life. Such thinking undermines the LDS concept of a mortal probation. They then quote several LDS leaders and the Book of Mormon to support this position. | ||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
*Joseph Fielding Smith | *Joseph Fielding Smith, ''Doctrines of Salvation'' 1:69 | ||
*Bruce R. McConkie | *Bruce R. McConkie, ''Mormon Doctrine'', 229. | ||
* | *{{s||Alma|34|32-33}} | ||
*Spencer W. Kimball | *Spencer W. Kimball, ''The Miracle of Forgiveness'', 210. | ||
*Spencer W. Kimball | *Spencer W. Kimball, ''The Miracle of Forgiveness'', 9-10. | ||
|response= | |response= | ||
*In this particular instance, we agree with the authors, LDS leaders and the Book of Mormon. This life is our mortal probation, and any Latter-day Saint who believes that they can sin in this life and simply make it up in the next is mistaken. | *In this particular instance, we agree with the authors, LDS leaders and the Book of Mormon. This life is our mortal probation, and any Latter-day Saint who believes that they can sin in this life and simply make it up in the next is mistaken. | ||
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*The authors claim that "no Mormon will ever receive" forgiveness, since no "human has the ability to clear the desire or urge to sin out of their life." They claim that Spencer W. Kimball said that "those who thought frequent repentance was a means of getting right with God must 'straighten out their thinking.'" | *The authors claim that "no Mormon will ever receive" forgiveness, since no "human has the ability to clear the desire or urge to sin out of their life." They claim that Spencer W. Kimball said that "those who thought frequent repentance was a means of getting right with God must 'straighten out their thinking.'" | ||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
*Spencer W. Kimball | *Spencer W. Kimball, ''The Miracle of Forgiveness'', 170. | ||
|response= | |response= | ||
*The authors wish to paint the LDS concept of repentance as something difficult and unachievable. | *The authors wish to paint the LDS concept of repentance as something difficult and unachievable. | ||
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*The authors claim that LDS leaders give "mixed signals as to whether or not perfection is necessary for exaltation." | *The authors claim that LDS leaders give "mixed signals as to whether or not perfection is necessary for exaltation." | ||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
*Marvin J. Ashton | *Marvin J. Ashton, ''Ensign'' (May 1989): 20-21. | ||
*Spencer W. Kimball | *Spencer W. Kimball, ''The Miracle of Forgiveness'', 208-209. | ||
*Gordon B. Hinckley | *Gordon B. Hinckley, ''Ensign'' (November 1999), 5. | ||
*Henry B. Eyring | *Henry B. Eyring, ''Ensign'' (November 1999), 34. | ||
|response= | |response= | ||
*Latter-day Saints believe the Jesus Christ was the only perfect person to ever live on the earth. To imply that LDS leaders are sending "mixed messages" regarding whether or not one can achieve perfection in this life is erroneous. | *Latter-day Saints believe the Jesus Christ was the only perfect person to ever live on the earth. To imply that LDS leaders are sending "mixed messages" regarding whether or not one can achieve perfection in this life is erroneous. | ||
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*The authors claim that Gordon B. Hinckley stated that Latter-day Saints should "keep trying" to attain perfection. Yet, since it is impossible to be perfect, the authors claim that "it is wrong for the LDS Church to demand complete obedience to all the laws of God in order to receive exaltation." They quote Stephen R. Robinson, who they claim "admits" that "keeping the commandments" is "a troublesome expression for Latter-day Saints." | *The authors claim that Gordon B. Hinckley stated that Latter-day Saints should "keep trying" to attain perfection. Yet, since it is impossible to be perfect, the authors claim that "it is wrong for the LDS Church to demand complete obedience to all the laws of God in order to receive exaltation." They quote Stephen R. Robinson, who they claim "admits" that "keeping the commandments" is "a troublesome expression for Latter-day Saints." | ||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
*Robinson | *Robinson, ''Believing Christ'', 45-46. | ||
|response= | |response= | ||
* | * | ||
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{{IndexClaim | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
*The authors claim that Russell M. Nelson said that "trying ''was'' good enough," | *The authors claim that Russell M. Nelson said that "trying ''was'' good enough," while Spencer W. Kimball contradicts this. | ||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
*Russell M. Nelson | *Russell M. Nelson, ''Ensign'' (November 1995), 88. | ||
*Spencer W. Kimball, ''The Miracle of Forgiveness'', 165. | |||
*Spencer W. Kimball | *Spencer W. Kimball, ''The Miracle of Forgiveness'', 164. | ||
*Spencer W. Kimball | |||
|response= | |response= | ||
* | * | ||
}} | }} | ||
Revision as of 20:48, 13 November 2009
| Chapter 10: The Atonement | A FAIR Analysis of: Criticism of Mormonism/Books A work by author: Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson
|
Chapter 12: Heaven and Hell |
Index of Claims made in Chapter 11: Grace and Works
150
Claim
- The authors claim that "Mormon leaders have redefined the word salvation and given it a split definition that is certainly not taught by the Bible."
Response
Mormonism's Attack on the Doctrine of Salvation by Grace
151-152
Claim
- Latter-day Saints "stereotype the evangelical Christian church as teaching that works are not important." According to the authors, Bruce R. McConkie said that salvation by grace alone was "the second greatest heresy of Christianity."
Author's source(s)
- Bruce R. McConkie, BYU 1983-84 Fireside and Devotional Speeches, "What Think Ye of Salvation by Grace?" 45;
- Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 670-671.
- LeGrand Richards, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, 25.
- Talmage, The Articles of Faith, 478-480.
Response
Celestial Law—Can it be Lived?
153-154
Claim
- Latter-day Saints have unrealistic expectations with regard to achieving exaltation. The authors claim that it is not possible to live "celestial law." Joseph Fielding Smith "sounded pessimistic" when he said "that if we save one-half of the Latter-day Satins, that is, with an exaltation in the celestial kingdom of God, we will be doing well." Orson Whitney said that we have to obey "every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" in order to live "celestial law."
Author's source(s)
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:15.
- Brigham Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, 404.
- John Taylor, The Gospel Kingdom, 3rd ed., 327-328.
- Orson Whitney, Conference Report (October 1910): 53.
- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 14:133.
- John Taylor, The Gospel Kingdom, 20.
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
155
Claim
- The authors claim that "[b]ecause of the unreasonable demand put on them, [Latter-day Saints] may live their daily lives with the guild of never being good enough for celestial exaltation. Some have even given up trying."
Author's source(s)
- Stephen E. Robinson, Believing Christ, 45.
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
"I Can Do it Later"
155-156
Claim
- The authors make an anecdotal claim that "[s]ome Latter-day Saints have felt that moral lapses in obedience can be overcome in the next life. Such thinking undermines the LDS concept of a mortal probation. They then quote several LDS leaders and the Book of Mormon to support this position.
Author's source(s)
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:69
- Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 229.
- Alma 34꞉32-33
- Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, 210.
- Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, 9-10.
Response
- In this particular instance, we agree with the authors, LDS leaders and the Book of Mormon. This life is our mortal probation, and any Latter-day Saint who believes that they can sin in this life and simply make it up in the next is mistaken.
"That is Why we Have Repentance"
156
Claim
- The authors dismiss the concept of repentance by claiming that it is inconsistent, "since it is in keeping the law that one is exalted, not admitting you broke it."
Response
157
Claim
- The authors claim that "no Mormon will ever receive" forgiveness, since no "human has the ability to clear the desire or urge to sin out of their life." They claim that Spencer W. Kimball said that "those who thought frequent repentance was a means of getting right with God must 'straighten out their thinking.'"
Author's source(s)
- Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, 170.
Response
- The authors wish to paint the LDS concept of repentance as something difficult and unachievable.
Achieving Perfection
157-158
Claim
- The authors claim that LDS leaders give "mixed signals as to whether or not perfection is necessary for exaltation."
Author's source(s)
- Marvin J. Ashton, Ensign (May 1989): 20-21.
- Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, 208-209.
- Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign (November 1999), 5.
- Henry B. Eyring, Ensign (November 1999), 34.
Response
- Latter-day Saints believe the Jesus Christ was the only perfect person to ever live on the earth. To imply that LDS leaders are sending "mixed messages" regarding whether or not one can achieve perfection in this life is erroneous.
"But I'm Trying!"
159
Claim
- The authors claim that Gordon B. Hinckley stated that Latter-day Saints should "keep trying" to attain perfection. Yet, since it is impossible to be perfect, the authors claim that "it is wrong for the LDS Church to demand complete obedience to all the laws of God in order to receive exaltation." They quote Stephen R. Robinson, who they claim "admits" that "keeping the commandments" is "a troublesome expression for Latter-day Saints."
Author's source(s)
- Robinson, Believing Christ, 45-46.
Response
159-160
Claim
- The authors claim that Russell M. Nelson said that "trying was good enough," while Spencer W. Kimball contradicts this.
Author's source(s)
- Russell M. Nelson, Ensign (November 1995), 88.
- Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, 165.
- Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, 164.
Response