
FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
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'''Note:''' All of the following questions in the blue boxes come from the ''MormonThink'' web page <nowiki>www.mormonthink.com/endpage.htm</nowiki>. | '''Note:''' All of the following questions in the blue boxes come from the ''MormonThink'' web page <nowiki>www.mormonthink.com/endpage.htm</nowiki>. | ||
{{Heading2|1. Joseph would have told the same version of the First Vision throughout his life. He would have gotten the details correct surrounding the most important, spectacular moment anyone could ever have in this life.}} | {{Heading2|1. Joseph would have told the same version of the First Vision throughout his life. He would have gotten the details correct surrounding the most important, spectacular moment anyone could ever have in this life.}} | ||
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* {{ReadMore|First_Vision/Accounts|l1=First Vision: accounts}} | * {{ReadMore|First_Vision/Accounts|l1=First Vision: accounts}} | ||
{{Heading2|2. Joseph's five brothers (and probably the rest of the household) that were sleeping in his room on September 21, 1823 would have been awakened by the presence of Moroni. They would have testified of his visit as well.}} | {{Heading2|2. Joseph's five brothers (and probably the rest of the household) that were sleeping in his room on September 21, 1823 would have been awakened by the presence of Moroni. They would have testified of his visit as well.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
{{Heading2|3. If the angel did indeed take back the gold plates and the urim and thummim from Joseph when Martin Harris lost the first 116 pages, he would have returned the urim and thummim to Joseph when he returned the gold plates to him, instead of having Joseph finish the translation using a common stone he found when digging a well.}} | {{Heading2|3. If the angel did indeed take back the gold plates and the urim and thummim from Joseph when Martin Harris lost the first 116 pages, he would have returned the urim and thummim to Joseph when he returned the gold plates to him, instead of having Joseph finish the translation using a common stone he found when digging a well.}} | ||
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* {{ReadMore|Joseph Smith/Seer stones|l1=Joseph Smith: seer stones|Joseph_Smith/Seer stones#Why_did_use_of_the_seer_stones_subside.3F|l2=Spiritual growth during translation process}} | * {{ReadMore|Joseph Smith/Seer stones|l1=Joseph Smith: seer stones|Joseph_Smith/Seer stones#Why_did_use_of_the_seer_stones_subside.3F|l2=Spiritual growth during translation process}} | ||
{{Heading2|4. Joseph would likely have actually used the gold plates in the translation process, instead of putting an ordinary stone in a hat without even looking at the plates.}} | {{Heading2|4. Joseph would likely have actually used the gold plates in the translation process, instead of putting an ordinary stone in a hat without even looking at the plates.}} | ||
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* {{ReadMore|Book_of_Mormon_translation_method|l1=Book of Mormon: translation method}} | * {{ReadMore|Book_of_Mormon_translation_method|l1=Book of Mormon: translation method}} | ||
{{Heading2|5. When the 116 pages were lost, Joseph would have simply retranslated the 'stolen' pages. If the pages were really stolen by evil men bent on foiling Joseph, the pages would have resurfaced in some form - either as a ransom attempt or foiled attempt to discredit Joseph. The stolen pages wouldn't have simply been destroyed by men who went to such trouble to obtain them.}} | {{Heading2|5. When the 116 pages were lost, Joseph would have simply retranslated the 'stolen' pages. If the pages were really stolen by evil men bent on foiling Joseph, the pages would have resurfaced in some form - either as a ransom attempt or foiled attempt to discredit Joseph. The stolen pages wouldn't have simply been destroyed by men who went to such trouble to obtain them.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*This was an object lesson for Joseph Smith—he learned of the very real consequence of transgression. | *This was an object lesson for Joseph Smith—he learned of the very real consequence of transgression. | ||
{{Heading2|6. The translation of the facsimiles in the Book of Abraham would match what Egyptologists say they mean. The rediscovered papyri would also support the Book of Abraham as well.}} | {{Heading2|6. The translation of the facsimiles in the Book of Abraham would match what Egyptologists say they mean. The rediscovered papyri would also support the Book of Abraham as well.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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* {{ReadMore|Book_of_Abraham_papyri_(long)#A_Jewish_redactor|l1=A Jewish redactor of Egyptian symbols?}} | * {{ReadMore|Book_of_Abraham_papyri_(long)#A_Jewish_redactor|l1=A Jewish redactor of Egyptian symbols?}} | ||
{{Heading2|7. The Book of Mormon would not mention things that did not exist in the Americas during Book of Mormon times such as horses, elephants, cattle, goats, wheat, barley, silk, steel, etc. It would probably mention things that did exist such as corn, yams, beans, squash, llamas, sloths, jaguars, and monkeys.}} | {{Heading2|7. The Book of Mormon would not mention things that did not exist in the Americas during Book of Mormon times such as horses, elephants, cattle, goats, wheat, barley, silk, steel, etc. It would probably mention things that did exist such as corn, yams, beans, squash, llamas, sloths, jaguars, and monkeys.}} | ||
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* {{ReadMore|Book_of_Mormon/Anachronisms|l1=Supposed "anachronisms" in the Book of Mormon}} | * {{ReadMore|Book_of_Mormon/Anachronisms|l1=Supposed "anachronisms" in the Book of Mormon}} | ||
{{Heading2|8. The BOM would be supported by archeological and linguistic evidence. Perhaps not so much evidence that we still wouldn't need faith, but something to show that the ancient Jews could have been in America.}} | {{Heading2|8. The BOM would be supported by archeological and linguistic evidence. Perhaps not so much evidence that we still wouldn't need faith, but something to show that the ancient Jews could have been in America.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*{{ReadMore|Book of Mormon archaeology}} | *{{ReadMore|Book of Mormon archaeology}} | ||
{{Heading2|9. There would be some remains of two large battles at the Hill Cumorah where over two million people fought and died.}} | {{Heading2|9. There would be some remains of two large battles at the Hill Cumorah where over two million people fought and died.}} | ||
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* {{ReadMore|Archaeology_and_the_Hill_Cumorah|l1=The Hill Cumorah}} | * {{ReadMore|Archaeology_and_the_Hill_Cumorah|l1=The Hill Cumorah}} | ||
{{Heading2|10. DNA evidence would support that the American Indians and South American peoples descended from Israel.}} | {{Heading2|10. DNA evidence would support that the American Indians and South American peoples descended from Israel.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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* {{ReadMore|Book of Mormon and DNA evidence|Book of Mormon and DNA evidence/Geography issues|l2=DNA and Geography}} | * {{ReadMore|Book of Mormon and DNA evidence|Book of Mormon and DNA evidence/Geography issues|l2=DNA and Geography}} | ||
{{Heading2|11. Joseph would have either denounced the Kinderhook Plates as a fraud, or at least said he didn't know what they were.}} | {{Heading2|11. Joseph would have either denounced the Kinderhook Plates as a fraud, or at least said he didn't know what they were.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*{{ReadMore|Kinderhook Plates}} | *{{ReadMore|Kinderhook Plates}} | ||
{{Heading2|12. The witnesses would have said all objective statements testifying of the BOM's divinity. They would not have said things like "I did not see them as I do that pencil case, yet I saw them with the eyes of faith; I saw them just as distinctly as I see anything around me - though at the time, they were covered with a cloth", 'he never saw them only as he saw a city through a mountain', etc.}} | {{Heading2|12. The witnesses would have said all objective statements testifying of the BOM's divinity. They would not have said things like "I did not see them as I do that pencil case, yet I saw them with the eyes of faith; I saw them just as distinctly as I see anything around me - though at the time, they were covered with a cloth", 'he never saw them only as he saw a city through a mountain', etc.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*{{ReadMore|Book of Mormon witnesses/Spiritual or literal|"Eye of Faith"/"Spiritual Eye" statements by Martin Harris|l1=Book of Mormon witnesses—Spiritual or literal?|l2="Spiritual Eye" statements by Martin Harris}} | *{{ReadMore|Book of Mormon witnesses/Spiritual or literal|"Eye of Faith"/"Spiritual Eye" statements by Martin Harris|l1=Book of Mormon witnesses—Spiritual or literal?|l2="Spiritual Eye" statements by Martin Harris}} | ||
{{Heading2|13. Some of the witnesses should have been critics or skeptics and not related to each other. Each witness should have written their own testimony instead of merely signing a pre-prepared statement.}} | {{Heading2|13. Some of the witnesses should have been critics or skeptics and not related to each other. Each witness should have written their own testimony instead of merely signing a pre-prepared statement.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*{{ReadMore|Book of Mormon witnesses/Character|l1=The character of the Book of Mormon witnesses}} | *{{ReadMore|Book of Mormon witnesses/Character|l1=The character of the Book of Mormon witnesses}} | ||
{{Heading2|14. God's true church would likely have been one of the first churches to proclaim equality for blacks instead of the last major religion in America to accept blacks as equals.}} | {{Heading2|14. God's true church would likely have been one of the first churches to proclaim equality for blacks instead of the last major religion in America to accept blacks as equals.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*{{ReadMore|Blacks and the priesthood}} | *{{ReadMore|Blacks and the priesthood}} | ||
{{Heading2|15. There would never have been teachings such as blacks received the curse from Cain for being less valiant in the pre-existence, or that they are destined to be servants only in the next life.}} | {{Heading2|15. There would never have been teachings such as blacks received the curse from Cain for being less valiant in the pre-existence, or that they are destined to be servants only in the next life.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*{{ReadMore|Blacks and the priesthood/The "curse of Cain" and "curse of Ham"|l1=The "curse of Cain" and "curse of Ham"}} | *{{ReadMore|Blacks and the priesthood/The "curse of Cain" and "curse of Ham"|l1=The "curse of Cain" and "curse of Ham"}} | ||
{{Heading2|16. Polygamy would have never been practiced. If it was really commanded by God, then it would have been done differently. It would have been practiced openly, honestly and with dignity, with no marriages to women already married or to underage girls. Joseph's wife would have full knowledge of the marriages and would have had to give her permission for each one. And probably one additional wife would have been sufficient instead of at least 33 wives for Joseph.}} | {{Heading2|16. Polygamy would have never been practiced. If it was really commanded by God, then it would have been done differently. It would have been practiced openly, honestly and with dignity, with no marriages to women already married or to underage girls. Joseph's wife would have full knowledge of the marriages and would have had to give her permission for each one. And probably one additional wife would have been sufficient instead of at least 33 wives for Joseph.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*{{ReadMore|Joseph Smith and polygamy|Plural_marriage_spiritual_manifestations|l2=Divine manifestations to plural wives and families}} | *{{ReadMore|Joseph Smith and polygamy|Plural_marriage_spiritual_manifestations|l2=Divine manifestations to plural wives and families}} | ||
{{Heading2|17. Joseph would not have proclaimed that a Greek Psalter was really a dictionary of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics. He would have either said what it really was, or that he just didn't know.}} | {{Heading2|17. Joseph would not have proclaimed that a Greek Psalter was really a dictionary of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics. He would have either said what it really was, or that he just didn't know.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*{{ReadMore|Joseph Smith/Greek psalter|l1=Joseph Smith and the Greek psalter}} | *{{ReadMore|Joseph Smith/Greek psalter|l1=Joseph Smith and the Greek psalter}} | ||
{{Heading2|18. The prophets since Joseph, including the current one, would have the same prophetic abilities Joseph had. They would finish the translation of the Bible that Joseph started, and they would get answers from God for the many troubling issues members have about the history and doctrine of the Church like blacks and the priesthood or the Book of Abraham papyri translation problems.}} | {{Heading2|18. The prophets since Joseph, including the current one, would have the same prophetic abilities Joseph had. They would finish the translation of the Bible that Joseph started, and they would get answers from God for the many troubling issues members have about the history and doctrine of the Church like blacks and the priesthood or the Book of Abraham papyri translation problems.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*{{ReadMore|Prophets don't prophesy|Fallibility of prophets|Revelation after Joseph Smith|l1=LDS prophets don't prophesy?|l2=Prophetic inerrancy?|l3=Revelation after Joseph Smith}} | *{{ReadMore|Prophets don't prophesy|Fallibility of prophets|Revelation after Joseph Smith|l1=LDS prophets don't prophesy?|l2=Prophetic inerrancy?|l3=Revelation after Joseph Smith}} | ||
{{Heading2|19. The temple endowment ceremony would not have come from the Masonry rituals that began in the middle ages.}} | {{Heading2|19. The temple endowment ceremony would not have come from the Masonry rituals that began in the middle ages.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*{{ReadMore|Temple endowment and Freemasonry}} | *{{ReadMore|Temple endowment and Freemasonry}} | ||
{{Heading2|20. The temple endowment ceremony would be a spiritual, uplifting experience for everyone that went through it, and it probably would not be so secretive.}} | {{Heading2|20. The temple endowment ceremony would be a spiritual, uplifting experience for everyone that went through it, and it probably would not be so secretive.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*We consider temple ordinances to be very sacred in nature—we do not invite or encourage the public to make it a spectacle. Consider that the text of the endowment in its various forms has been published by critical sources for many years. Why, then, are members supposed to refrain from discussing it outside the temple? Because these things, whether or not the public mocks them openly, are sacred to Latter-day Saints. We make our covenants in the temple with God, not the general public. We honor those covenants even in the face of any mockery or criticism that we are attempting to keep "secrets." | *We consider temple ordinances to be very sacred in nature—we do not invite or encourage the public to make it a spectacle. Consider that the text of the endowment in its various forms has been published by critical sources for many years. Why, then, are members supposed to refrain from discussing it outside the temple? Because these things, whether or not the public mocks them openly, are sacred to Latter-day Saints. We make our covenants in the temple with God, not the general public. We honor those covenants even in the face of any mockery or criticism that we are attempting to keep "secrets." | ||
{{Heading2|21. The temple endowment ceremony would never have had...uncomfortable penalties, oath of vengeance, etc. would never have been in there either. If any of these things were really from God, then they'd still be in the ceremony now.}} | {{Heading2|21. The temple endowment ceremony would never have had...uncomfortable penalties, oath of vengeance, etc. would never have been in there either. If any of these things were really from God, then they'd still be in the ceremony now.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*{{ReadMore|Temple endowment changes|Penalties in the endowment}} | *{{ReadMore|Temple endowment changes|Penalties in the endowment}} | ||
{{Heading2|22. The Church would have always had the same, correct name since it was formed in 1830 and not changed four years later to a name that didn't even include Christ in the name. It would not have to change it again another four years later to yet another name.}} | {{Heading2|22. The Church would have always had the same, correct name since it was formed in 1830 and not changed four years later to a name that didn't even include Christ in the name. It would not have to change it again another four years later to yet another name.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*{{ReadMore|Name of the Church}} | *{{ReadMore|Name of the Church}} | ||
{{Heading2|23. Testimonies wouldn't have to override facts and conflict with science.}} | {{Heading2|23. Testimonies wouldn't have to override facts and conflict with science.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*{{ReadMore|Mormonism and science|Mormonism_and_education/Education_and_belief|l2=Does education threaten belief?}} | *{{ReadMore|Mormonism and science|Mormonism_and_education/Education_and_belief|l2=Does education threaten belief?}} | ||
{{Heading2|24. If testimonies are real, then everyone that prays about the Church or the Book of Mormon should get the same confirming answers.}} | {{Heading2|24. If testimonies are real, then everyone that prays about the Church or the Book of Mormon should get the same confirming answers.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== | ||
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*{{ReadMore|Burning in the bosom}} | *{{ReadMore|Burning in the bosom}} | ||
{{Heading2|25. The true church would be the most honest of organizations. It would never publish artwork or articles in its official magazines that mislead readers as to how the Book of Mormon was translated, or that Joseph was alone when Moroni visited him. It wouldn't sugarcoat its history. The true church would be totally open and disclose what the leaders get paid (even public corporations do that). They would publish their financial statements and budgets as do many other churches. The true church would teach everything honestly and lead by example. It would not change the wording in its lesson manuals to act as if Joseph Smith and Brigham Young only had one wife each. You should never have to worry that there is another side of its history not taught by the church itself.}} | {{Heading2|25. The true church would be the most honest of organizations. It would never publish artwork or articles in its official magazines that mislead readers as to how the Book of Mormon was translated, or that Joseph was alone when Moroni visited him. It wouldn't sugarcoat its history. The true church would be totally open and disclose what the leaders get paid (even public corporations do that). They would publish their financial statements and budgets as do many other churches. The true church would teach everything honestly and lead by example. It would not change the wording in its lesson manuals to act as if Joseph Smith and Brigham Young only had one wife each. You should never have to worry that there is another side of its history not taught by the church itself.}} | ||
===Response=== | ===Response=== |
You say that I may have contributed to “accelerating someone’s journey through Mormonism”. That seems to imply that they would eventually leave Mormonism anyway so all I did was speed up the process. If that’s the case, I would say that I probably did them a favor. If they would eventually leave the church regardless then isn’t it better that they make that decision now and just move on?
—"Truthseeker," webmaster at MormonThink.com, email, July 7, 2009
Give me a Walter Martin anytime, a good stout wolf with his own fur on, instead of those more timid or sly parading around in their ridiculous fleeces with their teeth and tails hanging out. Give me "Ex-Mormons for Jesus" or the Moody Bible Tract Society, who are at least honest about their anti-Mormon agenda, instead of [those] camouflaged as..."Latter-day Saint[s]"....I prefer my anti-Mormons straight up.
—Stephen Robinson[1]
The web site MormonThink.com claims to be operated by active members of the Church with an interest in presenting objectively the "truth" about Mormonism. In general, the conclusions reached by the site reflect negatively on the Church. Its purpose is to introduce members to as much information as possible in order to persuade them to "think" their way out of the Church, and, quite possibly, a belief in God. The site operators state they "would rather have a somewhat smaller church full of knowledgeable, loyal, full-believing members than a large church full of inactive, semi-believing members." The site is a popular reference for many anti-Mormon sites because it claims to be balanced due to its inclusion of links to a few faith-promoting sites such as FAIR. In fact, answers to questions sent to FAIR's "Ask the Apologist" have been included on the site and used to "support" some of the sites negative conclusions by omitting context and relevant information.
The site is not merely an attempt to "steady the ark" by redirecting the Church according to the vision of its authors, but in some ways represents an attempt to actually lead members out of the church. The site's overall attitude toward religion is best summarized by their link to a routine by the late comedian George Carlin called "Religion is BS". MormonThink comments:
Comedian George Carlin has a 10 minute bit on why all religion is phony. Although comedic (and irreverent), it does make you think.
Thus, according to MormonThink, the validity of truth claims of not only the Church, but of any religion, ought to be reevaluated in light of a 10-minute shtick performed by a comedian. This is like recommending that one renegotiate his or her faith after viewing Bill Maher's Religulous. This then, represents the level of "thinking" that MormonThink wishes readers to engage in. While encouraging an honest, objective look at the Church, the site does not uphold the standards it claims, as discussed below.
According to MormonThink.com, if the Church actually contained God's truth and authority, "we would expect the following things to have happened in this way." The following is a list of issues presented by the website followed by FAIR's response. Most of the list are actually standard anti-Mormon fare, issues FAIR believes have been "asked and answered" many times. Nearly all points appeal to some type of intellectual or religious fundamentalism.
Further, it seems odd, to say the least, that a site devoted to "Mormon thinking" would express a series of items that would "make the Church true." Is one to assume that if this list were not required, in the eyes of MormonThink authors, that the Church would somehow be true? Nowhere do the authors address the very simple concept that the best way to find out whether the Church is true is to do what God directs—to ask Him. This list doesn't represent what would make the Church true; it represents a list of things which its authors feel make the Church false.
Note: All of the following questions in the blue boxes come from the MormonThink web page www.mormonthink.com/endpage.htm.
For with God nothing shall be impossible.
And behold, how oft you have transgressed the commandments and the laws of God, and have gone on in the persuasions of men. For, behold, you should not have feared man more than God. Although men set at naught the counsels of God, and despise his words— Yet you should have been faithful; and he would have extended his arm and supported you against all the fiery darts of the adversary; and he would have been with you in every time of trouble. Behold, thou art Joseph, and thou wast chosen to do the work of the Lord, but because of transgression, if thou art not aware thou wilt fall. But remember, God is merciful; therefore, repent of that which thou hast done which is contrary to the commandment which I gave you, and thou art still chosen, and art again called to the work.
And now, I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things; I would show unto the world that faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith.
—Ether 12꞉6
And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true.
—From the Testimony of Three Witnesses
Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship.
—From the Testimony of Eight Witnesses
And now, again, I speak unto you, my servant Joseph, concerning the man that desires the witness—Behold, I say unto him, he exalts himself and does not humble himself sufficiently before me; but if he will bow down before me, and humble himself in mighty prayer and faith, in the sincerity of his heart, then will I grant unto him a view of the things which he desires to see. And then he shall say unto the people of this generation: Behold, I have seen the things which the Lord hath shown unto Joseph Smith, Jun., and I know of a surety that they are true, for I have seen them, for they have been shown unto me by the power of God and not of man.
And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
Teachings for Our Day
This book deals with teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith that have application to our day. For example, this book does not discuss such topics as the Prophet’s teachings regarding the law of consecration as applied to stewardship of property. The Lord withdrew this law from the Church because the Saints were not prepared to live it (see D&C 119, section heading). This book also does not discuss plural marriage. The doctrines and principles relating to plural marriage were revealed to Joseph Smith as early as 1831. The Prophet taught the doctrine of plural marriage, and a number of such marriages were performed during his lifetime. Over the next several decades, under the direction of the Church Presidents who succeeded Joseph Smith, a significant number of Church members entered into plural marriages. In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff issued the Manifesto, which discontinued plural marriage in the Church (see Official Declaration 1). The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints no longer practices plural marriage.
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