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Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 3: Difference between revisions

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=Claims made in "Chapter 3: From Profit to Prophet"=
=Claims made in "Chapter 3: From Profit to Prophet"=
{{BeginClaimsTable}}
{{BeginClaimsTable}}
|41, 500 n.2-4||Joseph used at least two seer stones.
|
====41, 500 n.2-4====
||Joseph used at least two seer stones.
||
||
*[[Joseph Smith and seer stones]]
*[[Joseph Smith and seer stones]]
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*Quinn, 43.
*Quinn, 43.
|-
|-
|42, 500 n.7||Issac Hale, Emma's father, disapproved of Joseph because of his money digging activities.
|
===42, 500 n.7====
||Issac Hale, Emma's father, disapproved of Joseph because of his money digging activities.
||
||
*[[The Hurlbut affidavits#Isaac Hale|The Hurlbut affidavits—Isaac Hale]]
*[[The Hurlbut affidavits#Isaac Hale|The Hurlbut affidavits—Isaac Hale]]
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*Martin Harris, ''Tiffany's Monthly'', August 1859, vol. 5, 164.
*Martin Harris, ''Tiffany's Monthly'', August 1859, vol. 5, 164.
|-
|-
|44||Joseph was pronounced "guilty" of performing illegal activities with the stone.
|
====44====
||Joseph was pronounced "guilty" of performing illegal activities with the stone.
||
||
*[[Joseph Smith's 1826 glasslooking trial]]
*[[Joseph Smith's 1826 glasslooking trial]]
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*A.W. Benton, ''Evangelical Magazine and Gospel Advocate'', April 9, 1831, New Series 2, 120.
*A.W. Benton, ''Evangelical Magazine and Gospel Advocate'', April 9, 1831, New Series 2, 120.
|-
|-
|46, 503 n.18||Hugh Nibley said, "If this court recored is authentic, it is the most damning evidence in existence against Joseph Smith.
|
====46, 503 n.18====
||Hugh Nibley said, "If this court recored is authentic, it is the most damning evidence in existence against Joseph Smith.
||
||
*[[Joseph Smith's 1826 glasslooking trial]]
*[[Joseph Smith's 1826 glasslooking trial]]
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*Hugh Nibley, ''The Myth Makers'', 142.
*Hugh Nibley, ''The Myth Makers'', 142.
|-
|-
|46, 503 n.20||Francis Kirkham claimed that "If any evidence had been in existence that Joseph Smith had used a seer stone for fraud and deception, and expcially had he made this confession in a court of law as early as 1826, or four years before the ''Book of Mormon'' was printed, and this confession was in a court record, it would have been impossible for hism to have organized the resorted Church.
|
====46, 503 n.20====
||Francis Kirkham claimed that "If any evidence had been in existence that Joseph Smith had used a seer stone for fraud and deception, and expcially had he made this confession in a court of law as early as 1826, or four years before the ''Book of Mormon'' was printed, and this confession was in a court record, it would have been impossible for him to have organized the restored Church.
||
||
*[[Joseph Smith's 1826 glasslooking trial]]
*[[Joseph Smith's 1826 glasslooking trial]]
Line 44: Line 54:
*Francis Kirkham, '' A New Witness for Christ in the America'', 386.
*Francis Kirkham, '' A New Witness for Christ in the America'', 386.
|-
|-
|47, 503 n.22||Joseph realized that "money-digging alone was bringing in ony about $14 a month, which was not nearly enough to support a family."
|
====47, 503 n.22====
||Joseph realized that "money-digging alone was bringing in ony about $14 a month, which was not nearly enough to support a family."
||
||
*[[Joseph Smith and money digging]]
*[[Joseph Smith and money digging]]
Line 50: Line 62:
*''History of the Church'' 3:29
*''History of the Church'' 3:29
|-
|-
|47, 503 n.23||Joseph initially "attached no religious significance" to the "golden book" that he told people he would be retrieving. He instead "touted it as a book that would 'tell him how to get money that was buried in the ground.'"
|
====47, 503 n.23====
||Joseph initially "attached no religious significance" to the "golden book" that he told people he would be retrieving. He instead "touted it as a book that would 'tell him how to get money that was buried in the ground.'"
||
||
*[[The Hurlbut affidavits]]  
*[[The Hurlbut affidavits]]  
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*Parley Chase, letter to James T. Cobb, April 3, 1879 quoted in Wyl, ''Joseph Smith, the Prophet, His Family, and His Friends'', 276.
*Parley Chase, letter to James T. Cobb, April 3, 1879 quoted in Wyl, ''Joseph Smith, the Prophet, His Family, and His Friends'', 276.
|-
|-
|48, 503 n.25||Joseph decided to convert his book into a saga about America's ancient inhabitants as a money making scheme.
|
====48, 503 n.25====
||Joseph decided to convert his book into a saga about America's ancient inhabitants as a money making scheme.
||  
||  
*The author simply repeats Brodie's supposition. There is no actual evidence that this was the case.
*The author simply repeats Brodie's supposition. There is no actual evidence that this was the case.
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*{{CriticalWork:Brodie:No Man Knows|pages=83}}
*{{CriticalWork:Brodie:No Man Knows|pages=83}}
|-
|-
|503 n.25||Joseph tried to sell the copyright of the Book of Mormon in Canada.
|
====503 n.25====
||Joseph tried to sell the copyright of the Book of Mormon in Canada.
||
||
*[[Did Joseph Smith attempt to sell the Book of Mormon copyright?]]
*[[Did Joseph Smith attempt to sell the Book of Mormon copyright?]]
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*David Whitmer, ''An Address to All Believers in Christ'', 30-31.
*David Whitmer, ''An Address to All Believers in Christ'', 30-31.
|-
|-
|48, 503-4 n.29-32||One of Joseph's early descriptions of Moroni was of a bloody ghost with his throat cut.
|
====48, 503-4 n.29-32====
||One of Joseph's early descriptions of Moroni was of a bloody ghost with his throat cut.
||  
||  
||
||
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*Fayette Lapham, reprinted in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', vol. 1, 459.
*Fayette Lapham, reprinted in Vogel, ''Early Mormon Documents'', vol. 1, 459.
|-
|-
|50-51, n.34-36||"The Smiths eventually changed Joseph's 'dream' of a ghost to a 'vision' of a spirit (but not yet an angel)...A 'toad-like' creature 'assumed the appearance of a man' and struck Joseph on the side of his head, telling him that it was not yet time to retrieve the plates."
|
====50-51, n.34-36====
||"The Smiths eventually changed Joseph's 'dream' of a ghost to a 'vision' of a spirit (but not yet an angel)...A 'toad-like' creature 'assumed the appearance of a man' and struck Joseph on the side of his head, telling him that it was not yet time to retrieve the plates."
||
||
*[[The Hurlbut affidavits#Willard Chase|The Hurlbut affidavits—Willard Chase]]  
*[[The Hurlbut affidavits#Willard Chase|The Hurlbut affidavits—Willard Chase]]  
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*Willard Chase, cited in Howe, ''Mormonism Unvailed'', 242.  
*Willard Chase, cited in Howe, ''Mormonism Unvailed'', 242.  
|-
|-
|51||"A subsequent version of Smith's ever-changing tale..."
|
====51====
||"A subsequent version of Smith's ever-changing tale..."
||  
||  
*The author wishes to portray all of these stories as successive evolutions.
*The author wishes to portray all of these stories as successive evolutions.
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*No source given.
*No source given.
|-
|-
|51||"Until well into the late 1800s it was widely understood that Smith found the golden plates not by a dream, or a ghost, or a vision—but by looking into his peep-stone and seeing where they had been deposited.
|
====51====
||"Until well into the late 1800s it was widely understood that Smith found the golden plates not by a dream, or a ghost, or a vision—but by looking into his peep-stone and seeing where they had been deposited.
||
||
*[[One Nation Under Gods#Absurd claims|Absurd claims]]  
*[[One Nation Under Gods#Absurd claims|Absurd claims]]  
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*Widely understood?? The author cites several second-hand sources...from the 1850s!
*Widely understood?? The author cites several second-hand sources...from the 1850s!
|-
|-
|51||"all of the ''religious'' aspects of Smith's adventures came much later."
|
====51====
||"all of the ''religious'' aspects of Smith's adventures came much later."
||  
||  
||
||
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*No source provided.
*No source provided.
|-
|-
|53, 505-506n47 (HB)<br>53, 503-504n47 (PB)||"After all, no one had actually seen the plates, nor would anyone''ever'' see them"
|
====53, 505-506n47 (HB)====
<br>53, 503-504n47 (PB)||"After all, no one had actually seen the plates, nor would anyone''ever'' see them"
||
||
*[[One Nation Under Gods#Absurd clams|Absurd claims]]
*[[One Nation Under Gods#Absurd clams|Absurd claims]]
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*Testimony of the Eight Witnesses
*Testimony of the Eight Witnesses
|-
|-
|505 n.47||The witnesses only saw the plates through "visionary experiences."
|
====505 n.47====
||The witnesses only saw the plates through "visionary experiences."
||  
||  
*[[Book of Mormon witnesses/Spiritual or literal]]
*[[Book of Mormon witnesses/Spiritual or literal]]
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||
||
|-
|-
|505 n.47||The eight witnesses only saw the plates as long as they were covered with a cloth of some kind.
|
====505 n.47====
||The eight witnesses only saw the plates as long as they were covered with a cloth of some kind.
||  
||  
*[[Book of Mormon witnesses/Spiritual or literal]]
*[[Book of Mormon witnesses/Spiritual or literal]]
Line 141: Line 175:
*No source provided.
*No source provided.
|-
|-
|505 n.47||Martin Harris said that none of the eight witnesses ever saw the plates, and that he only handled them in a box or under a cloth.
|
====505 n.47====
||Martin Harris said that none of the eight witnesses ever saw the plates, and that he only handled them in a box or under a cloth.
||  
||  
*[["Eye of Faith"/"Spiritual Eye" statements by Martin Harris]]
*[["Eye of Faith"/"Spiritual Eye" statements by Martin Harris]]
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*Stephen Burnett, letter to Br Johnson, April 15, 1838, Joseph Smith Papers, Letterbook, April 20, 1837-February 9, 1843, 64-66 cited in {{CriticalWork:Tanner:Changing World|pages=108}}.
*Stephen Burnett, letter to Br Johnson, April 15, 1838, Joseph Smith Papers, Letterbook, April 20, 1837-February 9, 1843, 64-66 cited in {{CriticalWork:Tanner:Changing World|pages=108}}.
|-
|-
|505 n.47||Joseph Smith claimed that the Three Witnesses saw the plates in a vision.
|
====505 n.47====
||Joseph Smith claimed that the Three Witnesses saw the plates in a vision.
||  
||  
*[[Book of Mormon witnesses/Spiritual or literal]]
*[[Book of Mormon witnesses/Spiritual or literal]]
Line 153: Line 191:
*Joseph Smith, "History of Joseph Smith&mdash;Continued", ''Times and Seasons'', September 1, 1842, vol. 3, no. 21, 897-898.
*Joseph Smith, "History of Joseph Smith&mdash;Continued", ''Times and Seasons'', September 1, 1842, vol. 3, no. 21, 897-898.
|-
|-
|505 n.47||David Whitmer "agreed that neither he, nor the other Three Witnesses, ever physically saw or handled the plates.
|
====505 n.47====
||David Whitmer "agreed that neither he, nor the other Three Witnesses, ever physically saw or handled the plates.
||  
||  
*[[Book of Mormon witnesses/Recant]]
*[[Book of Mormon witnesses/Recant]]
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*{{CriticalWork:Tanner:Mormonism Shadow|pages=50-55}}
*{{CriticalWork:Tanner:Mormonism Shadow|pages=50-55}}
|-
|-
|508 n.59||"Mormons often try to discredit Anthon by pointing out an alleged discrepancy between his letters, but there exists no such discrepancy.
|
====508 n.59====
||"Mormons often try to discredit Anthon by pointing out an alleged discrepancy between his letters, but there exists no such discrepancy.
||  
||  
*[[Anthon transcript]]
*[[Anthon transcript]]
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*Persuitte, 303-304, endnote#19.
*Persuitte, 303-304, endnote#19.
|-
|-
|55, 508n60 (HB)<br>55, 506n60 (PB)||Scholars have declared that there is no language called "Reformed Egyptian."
|
====55, 508n60 (HB)<br>55, 506n60 (PB)====
||Scholars have declared that there is no language called "Reformed Egyptian."
||
||
*[[Book of Mormon anachronisms/Reformed Egyptian|Reformed Egyptian]]
*[[Book of Mormon anachronisms/Reformed Egyptian|Reformed Egyptian]]
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*John A. Wilson, letter to Marvin Cowan, March 16, 1966 quoted in {{CriticalWork:Tanner:Changing World|pages=144}}
*John A. Wilson, letter to Marvin Cowan, March 16, 1966 quoted in {{CriticalWork:Tanner:Changing World|pages=144}}
|-
|-
|55, 508 n.62||Joseph used his "peep-stone" to translate the Book of Mormon.
|
====55, 508 n.62====
||Joseph used his "peep-stone" to translate the Book of Mormon.
||
||
*[[Book of Mormon translation method]]
*[[Book of Mormon translation method]]
Line 180: Line 226:
*Hiel Lewis, "Review of Mormonism: Rejoinder to Elder Cadwell." ''Amboy Journal'', June 4, 1879, quoted in {{CriticalWork:Quinn:Magic World View|pages=172}}.
*Hiel Lewis, "Review of Mormonism: Rejoinder to Elder Cadwell." ''Amboy Journal'', June 4, 1879, quoted in {{CriticalWork:Quinn:Magic World View|pages=172}}.
|-
|-
|56, 508 n.63-65||Emma Smith and David Whitmer said that Joseph translated using his seer stone in a hat.
|
====56, 508 n.63-65====
||Emma Smith and David Whitmer said that Joseph translated using his seer stone in a hat.
||
||
*[[Book of Mormon translation method]]
*[[Book of Mormon translation method]]

Revision as of 21:02, 28 December 2008


Claims made in "Chapter 2: Moroni, Magic, and Masonry"
A FAIR Analysis of:
Criticism of Mormonism/Books
A work by author: Richard Abanes
 Claims made in "Chapter 4: Smith's Golden Book"

Claims made in "Chapter 3: From Profit to Prophet"

Page Claim Response Author's sources

41, 500 n.2-4

 Joseph used at least two seer stones.
  • D. Michael Quinn, Early Mormonism and the Magic World View, 245.
  • E.W. Vanderhoof, Historical Sketches of Western New York, quoted in Quinn, 43.
  • Quinn, 43.

42, 500 n.7=

 Issac Hale, Emma's father, disapproved of Joseph because of his money digging activities.
  • Isaac Hale, cited in Howe Mormonism Unvailed 262-263.
  • Martin Harris, Tiffany's Monthly, August 1859, vol. 5, 164.

44

 Joseph was pronounced "guilty" of performing illegal activities with the stone.
  • A.W. Benton, Evangelical Magazine and Gospel Advocate, April 9, 1831, New Series 2, 120.

46, 503 n.18

 Hugh Nibley said, "If this court recored is authentic, it is the most damning evidence in existence against Joseph Smith.
  • Hugh Nibley, The Myth Makers, 142.

46, 503 n.20

 Francis Kirkham claimed that "If any evidence had been in existence that Joseph Smith had used a seer stone for fraud and deception, and expcially had he made this confession in a court of law as early as 1826, or four years before the Book of Mormon was printed, and this confession was in a court record, it would have been impossible for him to have organized the restored Church.
  • Francis Kirkham, A New Witness for Christ in the America, 386.

47, 503 n.22

 Joseph realized that "money-digging alone was bringing in ony about $14 a month, which was not nearly enough to support a family."
  • History of the Church 3:29

47, 503 n.23

 Joseph initially "attached no religious significance" to the "golden book" that he told people he would be retrieving. He instead "touted it as a book that would 'tell him how to get money that was buried in the ground.'"
  • Parley Chase, letter to James T. Cobb, April 3, 1879 quoted in Wyl, Joseph Smith, the Prophet, His Family, and His Friends, 276.

48, 503 n.25

 Joseph decided to convert his book into a saga about America's ancient inhabitants as a money making scheme.
  • The author simply repeats Brodie's supposition. There is no actual evidence that this was the case.

503 n.25

 Joseph tried to sell the copyright of the Book of Mormon in Canada.
  • Hiram Page, letter to William McLellin, February 2, 1848.
  • David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, 30-31.

48, 503-4 n.29-32

 One of Joseph's early descriptions of Moroni was of a bloody ghost with his throat cut.
  • Hiel Lewis, Amboy Journal, April 30, 1879, quote in Wesley P. Walters, "The Mormon Prophet Attempts to Join the Methodists," reprinted in Wyl, Mormon Portraits, 79-80.
  • Fayette Lapham, reprinted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, vol. 1, 459.

50-51, n.34-36

 "The Smiths eventually changed Joseph's 'dream' of a ghost to a 'vision' of a spirit (but not yet an angel)...A 'toad-like' creature 'assumed the appearance of a man' and struck Joseph on the side of his head, telling him that it was not yet time to retrieve the plates."
  • Willard Chase, cited in Howe, Mormonism Unvailed, 242.

51

 "A subsequent version of Smith's ever-changing tale..."
  • The author wishes to portray all of these stories as successive evolutions.
  • No source given.

51

 "Until well into the late 1800s it was widely understood that Smith found the golden plates not by a dream, or a ghost, or a vision—but by looking into his peep-stone and seeing where they had been deposited.
  • Orasmus Turner, History of the Pioneer Settlement of Phelps and Gorham's Purchase, and Morris Reserve. (1852)
  • Hosea Stout, On the Mormon Frontier: The Diary of Hosea Stout, vol. 2, 593.
  • Martin Harris, Tiffany's Monthly, vol. 5, 163, 169.
  • Widely understood?? The author cites several second-hand sources...from the 1850s!

51

 "all of the religious aspects of Smith's adventures came much later."
  • Orasmus Turner, 214.
  • Hiel Lewis.
52 Joseph Smith claimed that the moon was inhabited.
  • Oliver B. Huntington, "The Inhabitants of the Moon," The Young Woman's Journal, 1892, vol. 3, 263-264.
52 Joseph taught the doctrine of "Caucasians advancing to godhood"
  • We would like to see a reference to this doctrine of "Caucasians advancing to godhood."
  • No source provided.
52 Joseph taught the notion that "Blacks, Indians, and other people of color are cursed spirits."
  • No source provided.

53, 505-506n47 (HB)


53, 503-504n47 (PB)||"After all, no one had actually seen the plates, nor would anyoneever see them"

  • Testimony of the Three Witnesses
  • Testimony of the Eight Witnesses

505 n.47

 The witnesses only saw the plates through "visionary experiences."

505 n.47

 The eight witnesses only saw the plates as long as they were covered with a cloth of some kind.
  • No source provided.

505 n.47

 Martin Harris said that none of the eight witnesses ever saw the plates, and that he only handled them in a box or under a cloth.

505 n.47

 Joseph Smith claimed that the Three Witnesses saw the plates in a vision.
  • Joseph Smith, "History of Joseph Smith—Continued", Times and Seasons, September 1, 1842, vol. 3, no. 21, 897-898.

505 n.47

 David Whitmer "agreed that neither he, nor the other Three Witnesses, ever physically saw or handled the plates.

508 n.59

 "Mormons often try to discredit Anthon by pointing out an alleged discrepancy between his letters, but there exists no such discrepancy.
  • Persuitte, 303-304, endnote#19.

55, 508n60 (HB)
55, 506n60 (PB)

 Scholars have declared that there is no language called "Reformed Egyptian."

55, 508 n.62

 Joseph used his "peep-stone" to translate the Book of Mormon.

56, 508 n.63-65

 Emma Smith and David Whitmer said that Joseph translated using his seer stone in a hat.
  • Emma Smith Bidamon, Interview with Joseph Smith, III, February 1879, reprinted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, vol. 1, 539.
  • Martin Harris, Interview with Anthony Metcalf, c. 1873-1874. Quoted in A. Metcalf, Ten Years Before the Mast..., reprinted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, vol. 2, 346-347.
  • David Whitmer, An Address to all believers in Christ, 12.

Further reading

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{{To learn more box:responses to: Jerald and Sandra Tanner}} To learn more about responses to: Jerald and Sandra Tanner edit
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{{To learn more box:responses to: John Dehlin}} To learn more about responses to: John Dehlin edit
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{{To learn more box:responses to: Kurt Van Gorden}} To learn more about responses to: Kurt Van Gorden edit
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{{To learn more box:responses to: Walter Martin}} To learn more about responses to: Walter Martin edit
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{{To learn more box:responses to: Will Bagley}} To learn more about responses to: Will Bagley edit
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