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Criticism of Mormonism/Books/American Massacre/Chapter 12: Difference between revisions
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== | ==Response to claim: 165 - Brigham made an "oblique but unrecognized reference to the massacre at Mountain Meadows" to Van Vliet"== | ||
{{ | {{IndexClaimItemShort | ||
|title=American Massacre | |||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
The author claims that Brigham made an "oblique but unrecognized reference to the massacre at Mountain Meadows" to Van Vliet when he said "if the government dare to force the issue, I shall not hold the Indians by the wrist any longer...you may tell the government to stop all emigration across the continent, for the Indians will kill all who attempt it." | The author claims that Brigham made an "oblique but unrecognized reference to the massacre at Mountain Meadows" to Van Vliet when he said "if the government dare to force the issue, I shall not hold the Indians by the wrist any longer...you may tell the government to stop all emigration across the continent, for the Indians will kill all who attempt it." | ||
| | |disinformation=The author just said earlier that Brigham had "seen to it that Van Vliet heard nothing of Mountain Meadows." Now she's saying that Brigham made an "oblique but unrecognized reference" to it! | ||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
Bancroft, 505. | |||
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====167==== | ====167==== | ||
{{IndexClaim | {{IndexClaim | ||
Revision as of 00:23, 30 March 2015
Response to claims made in Chapter 12: "Camp Scott, November 16, 1857"
| Chapter 11 | A FAIR Analysis of: American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows A work by author: Sally Denton
|
Chapter 13 |
Response to claim: 165 - Brigham Young had "seen to it that Van Vliet heard nothing of Mountain Meadows"
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
The author claims that during meetings with U.S. Army Quartermaster Captain Stewart Van Vliet, Brigham Young had "seen to it that Van Vliet heard nothing of Mountain Meadows," and that the "Mormon leaders worried that if van Vliet relayed news of the situation to Johnston, an invasion of Utah Territory would be expedited."
Author's sources: *No source provided for this particular claim, although the following citation is Van Vliet quoted in T.B.H. Stenhouse, Rocky Mountain Saints: a full and complete history of the Mormons, from the first vision of Joseph Smith to the last courtship of Brigham Young (New York: D. Appleton and Company, 1873), 357.
FAIR's Response
Others often discussed in conjunction with the Mountain Meadows Massacre
Jump to details:
Response to claim: 165 - Brigham did not preach the sermon at the church meeting attended by Van Vliet because he was "too furious to conduct the service"
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
The author claims that Brigham did not preach the sermon at the church meeting attended by Van Vliet because he was "too furious to conduct the service."
Author's sources: No source provided. Likely Stenhouse.
FAIR's Response
Response to claim: 165 - Brigham made an "oblique but unrecognized reference to the massacre at Mountain Meadows" to Van Vliet"
The author(s) of American Massacre make(s) the following claim:
The author claims that Brigham made an "oblique but unrecognized reference to the massacre at Mountain Meadows" to Van Vliet when he said "if the government dare to force the issue, I shall not hold the Indians by the wrist any longer...you may tell the government to stop all emigration across the continent, for the Indians will kill all who attempt it."
Author's sources: Bancroft, 505.
FAIR's Response
167
Claim
Any "Mormon man" who defied Brigham's declaration of Martial law would be "put to death."
Author's source(s)
- Brigham Young proclamation, alternately dated August 5 and September 15, 1857, original copies located in Special Collections, Marriott University Library, University of Utah. Reprinted in Fielding, Unsolicted Chronicler, 395;
- T.B.H. Stenhouse, Rocky Mountain Saints: a full and complete history of the Mormons, from the first vision of Joseph Smith to the last courtship of Brigham Young (New York: D. Appleton and Company, 1873), 358-59.
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
167
Claim
The author states that "any man who defied Young's orders would be put to death was made evident in his statement "When the time comes to burn and lay waste our improvements, if any man undertakes to shield his, he will be sheared down."
Author's source(s)
- Young quoted in Waite, 50.
- See Brigham Young, (13 Sept 1857) Journal of Discourses 5:232.
Response
- Denton uses a secondary source, when she could have easily verified Brigham's words in the Journal of Discourses.
- Misrepresentation of source: In context, Brigham's word assume a different tone. Immediately following the phrase quoted by the author, Brigham says "Now the faint-hearted can go in peace; but should that time come, they must not interfere." This is not a threat of death to those who would not participate.
- See: Disobey Brigham and be sheared down?
167
Claim
The date of Brigham's proclamation "was changed from August to September" in order to destroy evidence that it authorized the Mountain Meadows Massacre.
Author's source(s)
- Gibbs, Mountain Meadows Massacre, 11.
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
172
Claim
The author claims that "droves of Saints leaving California for Utah" and "a matching number leaving Utah of a crisis of conscience spurred by the events of Mountain Meadows" were "doomed to pass over the site of the slaughter."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided.
Response
- Mind reading: author has no way of knowing this.: the author needs to provide some evidence for this supposed "crisis of conscience."
172
Author's source(s)
- Ann Eliza Young, Wife No. 19, or the Story of a Life in Bondage...(Hartford, Conn.: Custin, Gilman & Company, 1876), 229.
Response
- Absurd claim: So now, Ann Eliza's intuitions are serving as evidence. Ann Eliza was writing later in life as an anti-Mormon lecturer, and used all the anti-Mormon tropes.
- See Hugh W. Nibley, Tinkling Cymbals and Sounding Brass: The Art of Telling Tales About Joseph Smith and Brigham Young (Vol. 11 of the Collected Works of Hugh Nibley), edited by David J. Whittaker, (Salt Lake City, Utah : Deseret Book Company ; Provo, Utah : Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, 1991),413–468. ISBN 0875795161. GL direct link GL direct link
173
Claim
It is claimed that Brigham Young instructed John D. Lee to write a letter laying the blame for the massacre on the Indians.
Author's source(s)
- No source provided.
Response
- As noted on the notes for p. 142, local leaders had planned to blame the Indians long before Brigham Young even knew of their intentions, or instructed them to leave the immigrants alone.
173
Claim
Brigham is claimed to have told Chief Walker's successor Arapeen to "help himself to what he wanted" of the "spoils of the slaughter."
Author's source(s)
- Dimick B. Huntington Journal, September 20, 1857.
- Compare treatment in Blood of the Prophets: p. 170a.
Response
- Quotes another author's opinion as if it were fact: Denton again follows Bagley completely uncritically, and makes the same errors.
- History unclear or in error: Indian chief Arapeen given booty?
176, 180
Claim
Colonel Thomas Kane is portrayed as arrogant, effeminate, a hypochondriac, and with delusions of fame.
Author's source(s)
- [ATTENTION!]
- Compare treatment in Blood of the Prophets: p. 198.
Response
- Presentism or anachronism: Thomas Kane
- Quotes another author's opinion as if it were fact: Denton seems to rely heavily on Bagley's treatment here.
186
Claim
Prior to the massacre, George A. Smith is claimed to "have carried orders to Cedar City leaders to incite their people to avenge the blood of the prophets."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided. (Likely Bagley)
Response
- For a detailed response, see: George A. Smith carried orders?
186
Claim
George A. Smith was "sent south not to learn the truth, but to devise an explanation for church leaders could provide to external enemies..."
Author's source(s)
- Will Bagley, Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows (University of Oklahoma Press, 2002), 212.
Response
- Double standard: Double standards in evidence
186
Claim
George A. Smith "went to lengths to characterize the victims as cowards."
Author's source(s)
- George A. Smith report in Juanita Brooks, The Mountain Meadows Massacre, p. 242.
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
Notes