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Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 3: Difference between revisions
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*Did David Whitmer say that none of the Three Witnesses ever actually physically saw or handled the plates? | *Did David Whitmer say that none of the Three Witnesses ever actually physically saw or handled the plates? | ||
|response= | |response= | ||
*{{FalseStatement}}: Whitmer wrote a letter in which he said: "As to what you Say about the correspondence published by P Whilhelm Poulson M D Aug[ust] 20th 1878. I surely did not make the Statement which you Say he reports me to have made, for it is not according to the facts. And I have always in the fear of God, tried to give a true statement to the best of my recollection in regard to all matters which I have attempted to Explain."{{ | *{{FalseStatement}}: Whitmer wrote a letter in which he said: "As to what you Say about the correspondence published by P Whilhelm Poulson M D Aug[ust] 20th 1878. I surely did not make the Statement which you Say he reports me to have made, for it is not according to the facts. And I have always in the fear of God, tried to give a true statement to the best of my recollection in regard to all matters which I have attempted to Explain." <ref>David Whitmer to S.T. Mouch, letter (18 November 1882), Whitmer Collection, RLDS Church Library -Archives, Independence, Missouri; cited in {{EarlyMormonDocs1|vol=6|start=36}}</ref> | ||
* The author ignores multiple confirmed statements from the witnesses, and cites a statement which the witness explicitly rejects. | * The author ignores multiple confirmed statements from the witnesses, and cites a statement which the witness explicitly rejects. | ||
*[[Book of Mormon/Witnesses/Recant]] | *[[Book of Mormon/Witnesses/Recant]] | ||
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=={{Endnotes label}} | == == | ||
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[[fr:Specific works/One Nation Under Gods/Index/Chapter 3]] | [[fr:Specific works/One Nation Under Gods/Index/Chapter 3]] | ||
Revision as of 01:13, 6 June 2014
Response to claims made in "Chapter 3: From Profit to Prophet"
| Claims made in "Chapter 2: Moroni, Magic, and Masonry" | A FAIR Analysis of: One Nation Under Gods A work by author: Richard Abanes
|
Claims made in "Chapter 4: Smith's Golden Book" |
41, 500 n2-4 (HB)
Claim
- Did Joseph use at least two seer stones?
Author's source(s) - D. Michael Quinn, Early Mormonism and the Magic World View, revised and enlarged edition, (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1998), 245 ( Index of claims )
- E.W. Vanderhoof, Historical Sketches of Western New York, quoted in Quinn, 43.
- Quinn, 43.
42, 500n7 (HB)
Claim
- Did Isaac Hale, Emma's father, disapprove of Joseph because of his money digging activities?
Author's source(s) - Isaac Hale, cited in Eber D. Howe, Mormonism Unvailed (Painesville, OH, 1834), 262-263. (Affidavits examined).
- Martin Harris, Tiffany's Monthly, August 1859, vol. 5, 164.
44
Claim
- Was Joseph pronounced "guilty" of performing illegal activities with his seer stone?
Author's source(s) - A.W. Benton, Evangelical Magazine and Gospel Advocate, April 9, 1831, New Series 2, 120.
46, 503 n.18
Claim
- Regarding Joseph's "trial," Hugh Nibley said, "If this court record is authentic, it is the most damning evidence in existence against Joseph Smith."
Author's source(s) - Hugh Nibley, The Myth Makers, 142.
46, 503n20 (HB)
Claim
- Francis Kirkham claimed that "If any evidence had been in existence that Joseph Smith had used a seer stone for fraud and deception, and especially had he made this confession in a court of law as early as 1826, or four years before the Book of Mormon was printed, and this confession was in a court record, it would have been impossible for him to have organized the restored Church."
Author's source(s) - Francis Kirkham, A New Witness for Christ in the America, 386.
47, 503n22 (HB)
Claim
- Did Joseph realize that money-digging was only earning him $14 a month, and that this was "not nearly enough to support a family?"
Author's source(s) - History of the Church 3:29
47, 503n23 (HB)
Claim
- Is it true that Joseph initially "attached no religious significance" to the "golden book" that he told people he would be retrieving, and that he instead said that the book would "tell him how to get money that was buried in the ground?"
Author's source(s) - Parley Chase, letter to James T. Cobb, April 3, 1879 quoted in Wyl, Joseph Smith, the Prophet, His Family, and His Friends, 276.
48, 503n25 (HB)
Claim
- Did Joseph decide to convert his book into a saga about America's ancient inhabitants as a money making scheme?
Author's source(s) - Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1945), 83. ( Index of claims )
- The author simply repeats Brodie's supposition. There is no actual evidence that this was the case.
- Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mind reading
503n25 (HB)
Claim
- Did Joseph try to sell the copyright of the Book of Mormon in Canada?
Author's source(s) - Hiram Page, letter to William McLellin, February 2, 1848.
- David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, 30-31.
48, 503-4n29-32 (HB)
Claim
- Was one of Joseph's early descriptions of Moroni that of a "bloody ghost" with his throat cut?
Author's source(s) - Hiel Lewis, Amboy Journal, April 30, 1879, quote in Wesley P. Walters, "The Mormon Prophet Attempts to Join the Methodists," reprinted in Wyl, Mormon Portraits, 79-80.
- Fayette Lapham [May 1870], reprinted in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 1:459.
- Citation error: the reference to the dream and bloody clothes is on p. 458.
- These supposed "early" accounts comes from hostile statements made forty to fifty years later!
- The 1870 account from Lapham says only that "a man" with "bloody clothes" appeared in a dream. (He also says this is what Joseph Jr. told his father, so this is hearsay.)
- Mark Ashurst-McGee, "Moroni as Angel and as Treasure Guardian," FARMS Review 18/1 (2006): 34–100. [{{{url}}} off-site] wiki
- Larry E. Morris, "'I Should Have an Eye Single to the Glory of God’: Joseph Smith’s Account of the Angel and the Plates (Review of: "From Captain Kidd’s Treasure Ghost to the Angel Moroni: Changing Dramatis Personae in Early Mormonism")," FARMS Review 17/1 (2005): 11–82. off-site
50-51, n34-36 (HB)
Claim
- Did a "toad-like" creature which "assumed the appearance of a man" and struck Joseph on the side of his head, prevent him from retriving the gold plates?
Author's source(s) - Willard Chase, cited in Eber D. Howe, Mormonism Unvailed (Painesville, OH, 1834), 242. (Affidavits examined).
51 (HB)
Claim
- The author refers to "[A] subsequent version of Smith's ever-changing tale..."
Author's source(s) - No source given.
- The author wishes to portray all of these stories as successive evolutions. In fact, the religious aspects appear in the very earliest accounts; only later hostile accounts add more and more "magical" aspects:
- Mark Ashurst-McGee, "Moroni as Angel and as Treasure Guardian," FARMS Review 18/1 (2006): 34–100. [{{{url}}} off-site] wiki
- Larry E. Morris, "'I Should Have an Eye Single to the Glory of God’: Joseph Smith’s Account of the Angel and the Plates (Review of: "From Captain Kidd’s Treasure Ghost to the Angel Moroni: Changing Dramatis Personae in Early Mormonism")," FARMS Review 17/1 (2005): 11–82. off-site
51 (HB)
Claim
- Was it "widely understood" in the 1800s the Joseph located the plates by using his seer stone to see where they had been deposited?
Author's source(s) - Orasmus Turner, History of the Pioneer Settlement of Phelps and Gorham's Purchase, and Morris Reserve. (1852)
- Hosea Stout, On the Mormon Frontier: The Diary of Hosea Stout, vol. 2, 593.
- Martin Harris, Tiffany's Monthly, vol. 5, 163, 169.
- Widely understood?? The author cites several second-hand sources...from the 1850s!
- Absurd claims
- Mark Ashurst-McGee, "Moroni as Angel and as Treasure Guardian," FARMS Review 18/1 (2006): 34–100. [{{{url}}} off-site] wiki
- Larry E. Morris, "'I Should Have an Eye Single to the Glory of God’: Joseph Smith’s Account of the Angel and the Plates (Review of: "From Captain Kidd’s Treasure Ghost to the Angel Moroni: Changing Dramatis Personae in Early Mormonism")," FARMS Review 17/1 (2005): 11–82. off-site
51 (HB)
Claim
- Is it true that "all of the religious aspects" of Joseph's story were added later?
Author's source(s) - Orasmus Turner, 214.
- Hiel Lewis.
- The author's claim is false: In fact, the religious aspects appear in the very earliest accounts; only later hostile accounts add more and more "magical" aspects:
- Mark Ashurst-McGee, "Moroni as Angel and as Treasure Guardian," FARMS Review 18/1 (2006): 34–100. [{{{url}}} off-site] wiki
- Larry E. Morris, "'I Should Have an Eye Single to the Glory of God’: Joseph Smith’s Account of the Angel and the Plates (Review of: "From Captain Kidd’s Treasure Ghost to the Angel Moroni: Changing Dramatis Personae in Early Mormonism")," FARMS Review 17/1 (2005): 11–82. off-site
52 (HB)
Claim
- Did Joseph Smith claim that the moon was inhabited?
Author's source(s) - Oliver B. Huntington, "The Inhabitants of the Moon," The Young Woman's Journal, 1892, vol. 3, 263-264.
52 (HB)
Claim
- Did Joseph teach the doctrine of "Caucasians advancing to godhood?"
Author's source(s) - No source provided.
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
52 (HB)
Claim
- Did Joseph teach the notion that "Blacks, Indians, and other people of color are cursed spirits?"
Author's source(s) - No source provided.
53, 505-506n47 (HB) 53, 503-504n47 (PB)
Claim
- The author states: "After all, no one had actually seen the plates, nor would anyone ever see them"
Author's source(s) - Misrepresentation of source: these testimonies cited below assert that they did see the plates, not that "no one" had.
- Testimony of the Three Witnesses
- Testimony of the Eight Witnesses
- The author's claim is false: Use of sources: Seeing the Plates
- Absurd claims
- Book of Mormon/Witnesses
505n47 (HB)
Claim
- Did the witnesses only see the plates through "visionary experiences?"
Author's source(s) - No source provided.
- Book of Mormon/Witnesses/Spiritual or literal
- Book of Mormon/Witnesses/Eight witnesses/shown to me by a supernatural power
505n47 (HB)
Claim
- Did the eight witnesses only "see" the plates as long as they were covered with a cloth of some kind?
Author's source(s) - No source provided.
505n47 (HB)
Claim
- Did Martin Harris say that none of the eight witnesses ever saw the plates, and that he only handled them in a box or under a cloth?
Author's source(s) - Stephen Burnett, letter to Br Johnson, April 15, 1838, Joseph Smith Papers, Letterbook, April 20, 1837-February 9, 1843, 64-66 cited in Jerald and Sandra Tanner, The Changing World of Mormonism (Moody Press, 1979), 108.( Index of claims ).
505n47 (HB)
Claim
- Joseph Smith claimed that the Three Witnesses saw the plates in a vision.
Author's source(s) - Joseph Smith, "History of Joseph Smith—Continued", Times and Seasons, September 1, 1842, vol. 3, no. 21, 897-898.
505n47 (HB)
Claim
- Did David Whitmer say that none of the Three Witnesses ever actually physically saw or handled the plates?
Author's source(s) - David Whitmer, interview recorded by P. Wilhelm Poulson, c. early 1878, reprinted in Deseret Evening News, August 16, 1878. [Available in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 6:37–40.]
- Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1945), 77-80. ( Index of claims )
- Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormonism—Shadow or Reality?, 5th edition, (Salt Lake City: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1987), 50-55.
- The author's claim is false: Whitmer wrote a letter in which he said: "As to what you Say about the correspondence published by P Whilhelm Poulson M D Aug[ust] 20th 1878. I surely did not make the Statement which you Say he reports me to have made, for it is not according to the facts. And I have always in the fear of God, tried to give a true statement to the best of my recollection in regard to all matters which I have attempted to Explain." [1]
- The author ignores multiple confirmed statements from the witnesses, and cites a statement which the witness explicitly rejects.
- Book of Mormon/Witnesses/Recant
- Spiritual or literal?
508n59 (HB)
Claim
- Do Latter-day Saint try to discredit statements of Charles Anthon by pointing out a discrepancy between his letters, where no actual discrepancy exist?
Author's source(s) - Persuitte, 303-304, endnote#19.
- Richard Bushman disagrees:
- Book of Mormon/Translation/Anthon transcript
55, 508n60 (HB) 55, 506n60 (PB)
Claim
- Have scholars have declared that there is no language called "Reformed Egyptian?"
Author's source(s) - John A. Wilson, letter to Marvin Cowan, March 16, 1966 quoted in Jerald and Sandra Tanner, The Changing World of Mormonism (Moody Press, 1979), 144.( Index of claims )
55, 508n62 (HB)
Claim
- Did Joseph use his "peep stone" to translate the Book of Mormon?
Author's source(s) - Hiel Lewis, "Review of Mormonism: Rejoinder to Elder Cadwell." Amboy Journal, June 4, 1879, quoted in D. Michael Quinn, Early Mormonism and the Magic World View, revised and enlarged edition, (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1998), 172 ( Index of claims ).
56, 508n63-65 (HB)
Claim
- Did Emma Smith and David Whitmer confirm that Joseph translated using his seer stone in a hat?
Author's source(s) - Emma Smith Bidamon, Interview with Joseph Smith, III, February 1879, reprinted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, vol. 1, 539.
- Martin Harris, Interview with Anthony Metcalf, c. 1873-1874. Quoted in A. Metcalf, Ten Years Before the Mast..., reprinted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, vol. 2, 346-347.
- David Whitmer, An Address to all believers in Christ, 12.
Notes
- ↑ David Whitmer to S.T. Mouch, letter (18 November 1882), Whitmer Collection, RLDS Church Library -Archives, Independence, Missouri; cited in Dan Vogel (editor), Early Mormon Documents (Salt Lake City, Signature Books, 1996–2003), 5 vols, 6:36.