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| | #REDIRECT [[Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink]] |
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| |title=MormonThink
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| |author=David Twede
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| |noauthor=
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| |section=Twede's long history of pretending to be a questioning member online
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| =Twede's long history of pretending to be a questioning member online=
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| {{Epigraph|Posing as a questioning member (which I am, just not active), I asked a question at FAIR's page. A Moap emailed me--someone who works with Danny Boy. This game is a bit different than the one you can play with the kindergarten missionaries at Mormon.org.....Posing as a fully active Mo is the only real gray area. I've resolved it for myself, but always wondered how Moaps handle it. Questioning allows me to see this....I felt that a little subterfuge would allow the experiment to run its course better than direct discussion as an exmo. Perhaps that is not appropriate, perhaps it is.<br>David Twede posting as "Jesus Smith" on Postmormon.org, February 1, 2012.
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| The use of the "starlight012" account was not Twede's first experience with masquerading as an active member when dealing with others online. He has a very long and rich history of posing as a questioning member in various online discussion forums. He typically goes back to Postmormon.org and talks with ex-Mormons about his experiences.
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| ==October 2009: Twede joins Postmormon.org as "Jesus Smith."==
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| ==August 2010: Twede poses as questioning member "cryophil" in communication with FAIR==
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| On August 30, 2010, Twede sent a message to FAIR posing as a questioning Church member. He sent his message to FAIR using the identifier "'''cryophil'''".
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| Cryophil wrote to FAIR,
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| <blockquote>
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| Hi, life member of LDS church. I am concernced about claims by anti-mormons saying that there is evidence suggesting that a lot of human sacrifice happened in mesoamerica during the period of great peace and Christ centered society of 4 Nephi (aprox. 30-220AD). The argument is that Christ destroyed all the wicked cities (3 Ne 8-9) and left the more righteous part of the people. He established his church, which stood up a society of common good and peace that prospered greatly and multiplied across the continents. But there are archeological evidence suggesting the biggest cities practiced human sacrifice and polytheism during the time of great peace. How can this be?
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| </blockquote>
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| (Note: For FAIR's response to the actual question asked, see [[Book of Mormon/Archaeology/Human sacrifice during 4 Nephi time period]].)
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| ==January 2011: Twede tells "Postmormon.org" that he is posing as questioning member "cryophil" on the Mormon Apologetic Discussion Board (now MormonDialogue)==
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| For a period of time, "Jesus Smith" cross-posted material from Postmormon.org to the Mormon Apologetic Discussion Board under the name "cryophil," starting on January 30, 2010. He was banned from the forum after making 35 posts. He talked about his efforts on Postmormon.org.
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| <blockquote>
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| Yes, the Moaps have made serious compromises to get to where they are: forcing the BoM to fit science. They argue that traditional interpretations were just that all along--including Joe Smith's take on the BoM. He and all profits are not enlightened like the Moaps.....'''BTW, I am cryophil. But keep that a secret please. ;-) If any of you can add to the MADB discussion, my alter ego would appreciate the assistance.''' I've posted several more times today...<br>Posted by "Jesus Smith" on Postmormon.org, October 26, 2011. {{ea}}
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| </blockquote>
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| ==February 2011: Twede talks about his interaction with FAIR with his friends on "Postmormon.org"==
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| Note that the term "moap" is Twede's contraction of "Mormon apologist," and the term "Danny Boy" is a diminutive reference to Daniel C. Peterson.
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| Twede comments on Postmormon.org,
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| <blockquote>
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| So I am sitting in my recliner, smoking a stogie, enjoying a snifter of scotch while I converse cozily with one of the elite FAIR moaps. I'll keep his name out of it for now.
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| <br><br>
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| Here's how it started. '''Posing as a questioning member (which I am, just not active), I asked a question at FAIR's page. A Moap emailed me--someone who works with Danny Boy. This game is a bit different than the one you can play with the kindergarten missionaries at Mormon.org.''' {{ea}}
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| <br><br>
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| Many of you know I have angst over 4 Nephi. The part where this society from heaven on earth has peace for almost 200 years? My question started out:
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| <br><br>
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| <blockquote>
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| I am concerned about claims by anti-mormons saying that there is evidence suggesting that a lot of human sacrifice happened in mesoamerica during the period of great peace and Christ centered society of 4 Nephi (aprox. 30-220AD). The argument is that Christ destroyed all the wicked cities (3 Ne 8-9) and left the more righteous part of the people. He established his church, which stood up a society of common good and peace that prospered greatly and multiplied across the continents. But there are archeological evidence suggesting the biggest cities practiced human sacrifice and polytheism during the time of great peace. How can this be?
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| </blockquote>
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| </blockquote>
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| Responding to questions from other posters regarding his motives in interacting with FAIR, Twede goes on to state,
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| <blockquote>
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| Truth is, I am not officially resigned, and this is an issue for me--one of my biggest. '''Posing as a fully active Mo is the only real gray area.''' I've resolved it for myself, but always wondered how Moaps handle it. Questioning allows me to see this....'''I felt that a little subterfuge would allow the experiment to run its course better than direct discussion as an exmo. Perhaps that is not appropriate, perhaps it is.''' {{ea}}
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| </blockquote>
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| This attitude, of course, accurately represents that taken by MormonThink - that of portraying themselves as active members in order to achieve their goal. It also explain's Twede's readiness to pose as active member "starlight012" to report a "bad member" for the purpose of getting someone to contact his bishop and initiate the media blitz.
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| ==October 2011: Twede as "cryophil" tells MormonDialogue that this is his "last ditch effort" to believe and that he "may have to accept the Book of Mormon as fictional"==
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| On October 26, 2011, "cryophil" portrayed his interaction with believers on the MormonDialogue board as his "last ditch effort" to believe. In reality, he had ceased to believe four years before.
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| <blockquote>
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| I'm asking as a final, last ditch effort to see if there are answers that make sense. I doubt it now. What I've seen are answers which re-interpret the scriptures on opinions, often contrary to the spoken word of GAs. What I've seen are compartmentalized, isolated fits of indirect evidence to obscure parts of the BoM. What I've seen is dissembling on the areas in which a traditional reading of the BoM run completely orthogonal to scientific data. I don't really get the sense that the whole truth is examined by this forum or at FAIR. I get the impression that some truths are not very useful, so goes the cherry picking. <br>Posted by "cryophil" on MormonDialogue, October 26, 2011. {{link|url=http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/56087-book-of-mormon-archaeology/page__st__20#entry1209059914}}
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| </blockquote>
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| <blockquote>
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| We are going round and round here. I have my questions these days. I am not sure they can be answered. It may be that I will have to accept the BoM as fictional moral teachings. That's a lot easier than to accept science is just wrong, and FAIR's interpretations are more scholarly. {{link|url=http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/56087-book-of-mormon-archaeology/page__st__20#entry1209059752}}
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| </blockquote>
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| ==April 2012: Twede creates the account "cryophil" on lds.net==
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| ==May 2012: Twede tells Postmormon.org that he is giving "lds.net Mormons a run for their money" and that he "hammers them with logic"==
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| In May 2011, Twede crossposted material between his account on Postmormon.org and a new account he had created on lds.net named "'''cryophil'''". The name ''cryophil'', of course, is the same identifier he used when communicating with FAIR and on MormonDialogue. The "cryophil" account was active on lds.net during April and May of 2012, once again posing as an active but questioning Church member in his interactions with others there. On May 9 and 10th, he updated the ex-Mormon message board Postmormon.org regarding his efforts on lds.net,
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| <blockquote>
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| Like many of you, I find the concept of religious faith absurd. It is a mind-trick to place it at the top, in first position, so that those who are racing to their belief will jump over it without much thought.....'''This topic is giving LDS.NET mormons a run for their money. Some of our posts have made their way into the discussion. haha'''<br>
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| see [http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/46383-why-faith-1st-principle.html why-faith-1st-principle] {{ea}}
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| </blockquote>
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| The link is to a post on lds.net made by "cryophil" on May 7, 2012. On May 10, 2012, "cryophil" notes on lds.net,
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| <blockquote>
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| My other question then is, what happens when the evidence found by science contradicts the faith I've placed in Mormonism?
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| </blockquote>
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| The next day, Twede reported back to the ex-Mormon board that he was "[c]ontinuing to hammer them with logic." Twede's "cryophil" account on lds.net was ultimately banned, just like his "starlight012" and his new account in his own name were banned.
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| ==August 2012: Twede creates account "starlight012" and poses as an active concerned member to report a "bad member" running MormonThink==
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| <blockquote>
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| Hi, I am new to the forum. I want help. There is a member who is posting anti-mormon information and claiming to be a member in good standing. I know him, his name and want his leaders to encourage him to stop. What do I do? it's an article at that mormon think website.<br>Posted by "starlight012" (linked to David Twede by lds.net moderators as having originated from the same IP address) on lds.net, August 23, 2012.
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| </blockquote>
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| ==September 20, 2012: Twede tells Postmormon.org of his attempt to post his message about fighting the Church in the media on lds.net==
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| On September 20, 2012, David Twede, this time under his real name at Postmormon.org, states that he attempted to post his intent to create a media stir about his pending discipline to a number of online forums. He posted the following on "Postmormon.org" on September 20,
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| <blockquote>
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| I have simultaneously posted to MormonDiscussions, RfM, StayLDS, Postmormon and LDS.NET forums, for completeness. However, LDSNET took it down immediately.
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| </blockquote>
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| ==September 24, 2012: lds.net moderators ban all of Twede's accounts after identifying him as "starlight012"==
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| After banning all of Twede's lds.net accounts, a moderator posted the following,
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| <blockquote>
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| The person who started this IS the person who writes the blog, whose deception here will tell you all you need to know about his sense of ethics. (posted by moderator "Eowyn" on September 24, 2012) {{link|url=http://www.lds.net/forums/advice-board/48374-report-bad-member-4.html#post700733}}
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| </blockquote>
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