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{{FAIRAnalysisHeader
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink
|title=MormonThink
|H=A FairMormon Analysis of the critical website ''MormonThink.com''
|author=Anonymous
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{{Epigraph|I fantasize about a full-blown faith-destroying session. In real life, I did put the bishop in his place over polygamy. He kept saying I was wrong about Joseph having other wives and being illegal and such. I proved him wrong and he ate crow. twas fun. <br><br>&mdash;MormonThink's first managing editor, Feb. 21, 2012, 12:50PM. <ref>Comment by MormonThink's founding editor, posting as "SpongeBob SquareGarments" on the ex-Mormon message board ''Recovery from Mormonism'', Feb. 21, 2012 at 12:50PM. After FairMormon posted this quote, the original was deleted from the RFM board. The original thread in which it appeared, however, still exists here: Thread [http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,423418,423816 Anyone Fantasize About a Showdown with SP or Bishop?], ''Recovery from Mormonism'', posted Feb. 20, 2012.</ref>
|title=''MormonThink.com''
|type=Website
|author=Anonymous; Webmaster uses the pseudonyms "Truthseeker" and "SpongeBob SquareGarments"
|affiliation="Active" members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; Ex-Mormons active on the ''Recovery from Mormonism'' message board. Recent indications suggest that the only "active" member is the webmaster.
|accuracy=Conclusions drawn are predominantly negative toward the truth claims of the Church.
|templecontent='''NOTE: Extremely detailed temple content is posted on the web site'''
}}
}}
==The webmaster of ''MormonThink'' in his own words==
[[File:Mormonthink supporter at april 2014 general conference.jpg|thumb|400px|center|An individual displays a sign advertising MormonThink.com during "The American Atheists Mass Resignation Event" at the April 2014 General Conference]]
The webmaster of ''MormonThink'' posts in several online ex-Mormon message boards under the names "SpongeBob SquareGarments" and "LDS Truthseeker". The best explanation of his website and its purpose is offered in his own words.
<!-- {{parabreak}}
<blockquote>
{{Epigraph|My dream and hope and aspiration: Members of the 1stP and the Q12 are walked out of the [Church Office Building] or their homes in handcuffs for tax evasion, racketeering, money-laundering,...Add the gender discrimination and fraud suits that many will pile onto the criminal charges, and I think 2013-14 just might be a banner moment. Maybe I'm dreaming. But some of us are working on it.<br>&mdash;MormonThink's second managing editor, posting as "Jesus Smith" on ''Recovery from Mormonism'', December 26, 2012. <ref>Comment by MormonThink's second managing editor, David Twede (posting as "Jesus Smith"), on ''Recovery from Mormonism'', December 26, 2012.</ref>
'''From the admin of MormonThink'''
}}
<br><br>
{{parabreak}}
As the guy who gets most of the email directed to the MormonThink website, I can say that 19 out of 20 people that read through the website say it changed their minds and they no longer believe in the church and usually write to thank those that helped make the site. But 1 out of 20 is someone that has read most of it, or has read a lot of it, and still believes. I have had ongoing conversations with these people and they continue to believe (at least for now). I think if people really want to believe that something is true, they will find a way to do it - like the apologists who know as much as any of us do. However, my experience is that if you can actually get someone to look at all the facts via a few websites or books, that the majority will stop believing in the church and that 100% of those that viewed everything will at least have a diminished view of the church they thought they knew.<br>Posted by '''SpongeBob SquareGarments''' on thread "Ever Get a TBM to Read a Book or Website Exposing the Truth About Mormonism?", ''Recovery from Mormonism'', April 20, 2012.
{{Epigraph|It is amazing to me that we are perceived as 'angry' for speaking against the lies of the church and the way in which we are maligned by them. Yet, Jeff Holland can huff and puff, shout and scream, dribble from his mouth and pound the pulpit while he tells blatant lies, and he is considered so 'spiritual'. The mind boggles at how dumb (or brainwashed) TBMs [True Believing Mormons] can be.<br>&mdash;MormonThink's third managing editor, Tom Phillips, posting as "anointed one" on ''Recovery from Mormonism'', July 6, 2013. <ref>Comment by MormonThink's third and current managing editor (posting as "anointed one"), on ''Recovery from Mormonism'', July 6, 2013.</ref>
</blockquote>
}}
{{parabreak}}
{{Epigraph|Am I still an active member of the LDS Church? Yes. I no longer believe it is the one, true church. I stay in primarily to help others just discovering the truth about Mormonism. We at MT think every member has the right to know about the true origins of Mormonism.<br>&mdash;Poster "mormonthink," 'I am the webmaster of MormonThink.com AMA', posted on ex-Mormon subreddit, January 28, 2012. {{link|url=https://pay.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/ozyfg/i_am_the_webmaster_of_mormonthinkcom_ama/}}
}}
{{parabreak}}
{{Epigraph|The leader of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been ordered to appear before a magistrate in England on fraud charges filed by a disaffected ex-Mormon who disputes fundamental teachings of the religion....The criminal complaint was lodged by Tom Phillips, a Mormon who said he withdrew from the Church after holding positions in England as bishop, stake president and area executive secretary. He now serves as managing editor of MormonThink, an online publication that critiques the Church's history and doctrine.<br>&mdash;Dennis Wagner, [http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/02/04/mormon-president-ordered-to-court/5216645/ "Mormon president ordered to appear in British court,"] ''USA TODAY'' (4 February 2014)
}}
{{parabreak}}
{{Epigraph|Mormons, your prophet is lame, deaf and mute.  Can he get a miracle cure?<br>&mdash;MormonThink editor David Twede, "No Miracles for the Lame, Deaf and Mute Monson," ''Mormon Disclosures'' February 7, 2014.}}
{{parabreak}}
{{Epigraph|This is an application on behalf of Mr. Monson....for the withdrawal of two summonses for fraud issued by this court on application by Mr. Phillips.....It would be relatively easy to state explicitly that Mr. Monson has made these specific representations, and when and how the misrepresentations were made. This has not been done.....It is obvious that this proposed prosecution attacks the doctrine and beliefs of the Mormon Church.... I am satisfied that the process of the court is being manipulated to provide a high-profile forum to attack the religious beliefs of others. It is an abuse of the process of the court....For the reasons given above, these summonses are withdrawn.<br>Judge Howard Riddle, Senior District Judge (Chief Magistrate) in the Westminster Magistrate's Court, Thomas Phillips vs. Thomas Monson (20 March 2014) in response to the summonses facilitated by former MormonThink Managing Editor Tom Phillips. {{link|url=http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/thomas-phillips-v-thomas-monson.pdf}}
}}
{{parabreak}}
{{Epigraph|Phillips is not discouraged by the ruling, according to a statement put out by David Twede, a spokesman for MormonThink.com, where Phillips is the managing editor. "Although this ruling represents a setback for our cause, we remain steadfast in our commitment to bring the LDS Corporation to justice," Phillips is quoted as saying. "For people around the world, this case has brought to light the truth: The LDS organization has committed fraud, and fraud is a serious crime."<br>"British judge tosses fraud suit against Mormon prophet," ''Salt Lake Tribune'' (20 March 2014) {{link|url=http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57706938-78/church-court-lds-case.html.csp}}
}} -->
{{parabreak}}
[[File:Mormonthink.chart.summary.png|center|frame]]
<onlyinclude>
{{H2
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink
|H=A FairMormon Analysis of claims made on the critical website ''MormonThink.com''
|S=The web site MormonThink.com originally claimed to be operated by active members of the Church with an interest in objectively presenting the "truth" about Mormonism. They authors have since abandoned the pretense that any of them are "active" in the Church. The founding webmaster was, by his own admission, pretending to be semi-active in order to destroy members' and missionaries' testimonies from within the social structure of the Church. The site pretends to be "balanced" by presenting information and links to apologetic sites, however, the conclusions reached by the site consistently reflect negatively on the Church's truth claims. The site also sometimes contains a large amount of Temple content.
|L1=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Translation of the Book of Mormon"
|L2=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Book of Mormon Problems"
|L3=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Lost 116 Pages of the Book of Mormon"
|L4=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Could Joseph Smith have written the Book of Mormon?"
|L5=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Witnesses"
|L6=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Moroni's Visitation"
|L7=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The First Vision"
|L8=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Book of Abraham"
|L9=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Kinderhook Plates"
|L10=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Joseph's Translation of the Bible"
|L11=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Running with Gold Plates"
|L12=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Polygamy"
|L13=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Blacks and the Priesthood"
|L14=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Greek Psalter Incident"
|L15=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Conflicts with Science"
|L16=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Tithing"
|L17=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Temple"
|L18=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Lying for the Lord"
|L19=Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Doctrine & Covenants"
}}
</onlyinclude>
==Overview==
<!--[[File:Mt.founding.editor.faith.destroying.RFM.jpg|right|600px]]
[[File:I.am.the.webmaster.of.mormonthink.AMA-2.jpg|right|600px]]-->


<blockquote>
The website mormonthink.com is designed to lead Church members into questioning their beliefs in a non-threatening manner by claiming to be "objective" and "balanced." For years that site claimed to be run by active members of the Church. In reality, however, they were "active" only in the sense that some of them still occasionally attended Church&mdash;they did ''not'' accept the Church's truth claims, and they had no interest in strengthening belief. Instead, the site portrays Church leaders as liars, Joseph Smith as a fraud and con-man, and the Church as "an oppressive empire building corporation." The site includes links to FairMormon as a way of demonstrating their claimed "balance."  
So that is one of the reasons I remain in the church. It gives me greater credibility when I speak about my own religion instead of it being my former religion. We all know as soon as I leave it, I am labeled as someone who left because of morality, tithing or some other issue rather than the historical problems of the church. One reason that Grant Palmer's book has been so successful is that he is a current member (although now disfellowshipped) and not vilified like the Tanners. By subtly mentioning things in meetings I may raise some doubts or by carrying around a copy of ‘An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins’ or Sunstone or Dialogue, I am sometimes asked about them and can gently guide someone to further enlightenment about church history. So you can consider myself one who tries to share the historical problems of the Church from within instead of from outside the Church. It's tough sometimes but I don't take any crap from anyone. I no longer pay tithing or wear garments and blow off callings I don't want but I remain a member because I choose to be one....The hardest challenge for me is to keep some level of integrity. I never lie at church (i.e. give a false testimony) but I play the game to keep membership but don't want to be given callings I don't want. I don't mind going to church (but not all the time) but don't like to be hounded to go to the temple and such. ALSO, it is very hard for me not to stand up and tell the teacher that the manual is wrong or call out some member (a friend) for saying something in error. It is hard to sit though many of the meetings when I know [so] much more truth than any of them do. And I can't just stand up and tell them.....No tithing but I give a fair share to other worthy charities. I'm not a big drinker but I do drink now and then if I want to.....I must admit I am cautious about that. Not so much for me but for my wife so I don't normally drink in public. yeah, I feel like a kid hiding beer at home from my ne[i]ghbors but it's the price I pay.<br>&mdash;Comment posted by "active Mormon" MormonThink webmaster on thread [http://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/ozyfg/i_am_the_webmaster_of_mormonthinkcom_ama/ "''''I am the webmaster of MormonThink.com AMA'''',"] ex-Mormon reddit, Jan. 2012
</blockquote>


<blockquote>
Each page on MormonThink.com typically includes quotes from Church sources, large amounts of block text copied from websites critical of the Church, a few references to LDS apologetics that are followed by mocking refutations by critics, and and ending summary which generally agrees with the critics. The bottom of each page contains links to critical sites, believers' sites and to some sites which they consider neutral.
I fantasize about a full-blown faith-destroying session. In real life, I did put the bishop in his place over polygamy. He kept saying I was wrong about Joseph having other wives and being illegal and such. I proved him wrong and he ate crow.<br>&mdash;MormonThink's webmaster, posted as "'''SpongeBob SquareGarments'''" on ''Recovery from Mormonism'', Feb. 21, 2012
</blockquote>


<blockquote>
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Translation of the Book of Mormon}}
OUR OPPORTUNITY GUYS AND GALS: Make sure you call in with a good question or 2 so it will give Grant [Palmer] a reason to bring up something damaging - B[ook] O[f] A[braham], Kinderhook Plates, polyandry, etc.<br>&mdash;Posted by: "'''SpongeBob SquareGarments'''" on ''Recovery from Mormonism'' on May 18 during a call-in show featuring Grant Palmer.
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Book of Mormon Problems}}
</blockquote>
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Lost 116 Pages of the Book of Mormon}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Could Joseph Smith have written the Book of Mormon}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Witnesses}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Moroni's Visitation }}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The First Vision}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Book of Abraham}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Kinderhook Plates}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Joseph's Translation of the Bible}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Joseph Running with the Plates}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Polygamy}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Blacks and the Priesthood}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Greek Psalter Incident}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Conflicts with Science}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Tithing}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Temple}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Lying for the Lord}}
{{:Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Doctrine & Covenants}}


==Testimonials from those who no longer believe in the Church because of MormonThink==
===<span style="color:green">The "Spin Free" Section</span>===
<blockquote>
The following articles extract all of the primary and secondary source quotes from the critical site, places them within their original context when possible, and provides links to the original sources online. This allows you to read the critics' articles free of critical or apologetic "spin." You read the quotes and decide for yourself what to think, without any help from FairMormon or from the critics at MormonThink. If you want to check the sources, we make it easy to go back and look at the originals whenever possible. We won't tell you what to think, and neither will the critics.
I went from believing to non believing literally within minutes, while reading about the [Book of Abraham] on MormonThink. It was on a Sunday evening. That Sunday was the last time I went to church. My family resigned a month after that.<br>Ex-Mormon '''Mia''', posted on ''Recovery from Mormonism'', April 20, 2012.
</blockquote>


<blockquote>
{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
After reading up at mormonthink.com this week, I realized the church wasn't true. I realized that I wouldn't have to obey anymore stupid rules. I was free to think for myself and have no obligations toward the leaders of the church. No longer will the choices I make cause me to feel like I'm a bad person. This whole week I've been the happiest I can remember!!<br>'''LeConnor''', posted on ex-Mormon subreddit, 2012.
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Translation of the Book of Mormon/Source quotes without commentary
</blockquote>
|page=Translation of the Book of Mormon
}}
{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Could Joseph Smith have written the Book of Mormon/Source quotes without commentary
|page=Could Joseph Smith have written the Book of Mormon
}}
{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Lost 116 Pages of the Book of Mormon/Source quotes without commentary
|page=The Lost 116 Pages of the Book of Mormon
}}
{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Witnesses/Source quotes without commentary
|page=The Witnesses
}}
{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The First Vision/Source quotes without commentary
|page=The First Vision
}}
{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/The Kinderhook Plates/Source quotes without commentary
|page=The Kinderhook Plates
}}
{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Conflicts with Science/Source quotes without commentary
|page=Conflicts with Science
}}
{{SummaryItemSourceQuoteMormonThink
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Joseph Running with the Plates/Source quotes without commentary
|page=Joseph Running with the Plates
}}


<blockquote>
{{SummaryItem
I think that it is a crucial site for [True Believing Mormons] to discover the truth. The fact that Mormonthink.com is run by members removes any suspicion of "anti-mormon" material. I LOVE THE SITE.<br>'''Angelina5''', posted on ''Recovery from Mormonism'', April 20, 2012.
|link=Book of Mormon/Plagiarism accusations/Comoros Islands and Moroni/Captain Kidd
</blockquote>
|subject=A FairMormon Analysis of MormonThink page "Joseph Smith, Captain Kidd, Cumorah And Moroni"
 
|summary=Grant Palmer published a paper called "Joseph Smith, Captain Kidd, Cumorah And Moroni" in the ''John Whitmer Historical Association Journal'' in 2014. Palmer asserts that Joseph Smith acquired the names "Cumorah" and "Moroni" by reading stories of Captain Kidd in his youth. Palmer concludes that it is "reasonable to assert that Joseph Smith's hill in the "land of Camorah" [Comorah/Cumorah], "city of Moroni," and "land of Moroni" <ref>Grant Palmer, John Whitmer Historical Association vol. 34 no. 1 Spring/Summer 2014</ref> We respond to these claims in this article.
<blockquote>
}}
Somewhere there was a link to mormonthink.com and that's when everything came apart for me really fast. I read almost the entire site over the next three days (in secret with private browsing on)... It was the first time I had ever even considered that the Church might not be true, and all the concerns and doubts I had over the years made so much more sense if none of it was true to begin with. I knew right then that there was no going back, I no longer believed it, and I had to get out of it just to be honest to myself.<br>'''_OhByTheWay_''', posted on ex-Mormon subreddit, 2011.
{{SummaryItem
</blockquote>
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Kirtland Temple Dedication
 
|subject=A FairMormon Analysis of MormonThink page "Kirtland Temple Dedication"
<blockquote>
|summary=({{antilink|http://mormonthink.com/glossary/kirtlandtemplededication.htm}})Regarding the heavenly manifestations that accompanied the Kirtland Temple dedication, Mormonthink concludes that "It's likely that Joseph said he was seeing something angelic and told the congregation what he claimed to be seeing. Those in attendance relayed what Joseph said he saw. Everyone was so excited for this grand event, that they likely got caught up in the moment and imagined some extraordinary things."
The big thing I don't understand is how the members who run the site can still be members. If I'd known half of all that stuff sooner I would have gotten out before I did. Why don't they?<br>'''rosemary''', posted on ''Recovery from Mormonism'', April 20, 2012.
|L1=Response to claim: "Some who were genuinely drunk probably added fuel to the environment by claiming to see things just to support their beloved prophet"
</blockquote>
|L2=Response to claim: "Both Elias and Elijah also are reported to have appeared as two separate beings in the Kirtland temple....However, Elias and Elijah are the same person"
 
}}
<blockquote>
I personally am still a member and I think I stay in mainly just to s[t]ay on top of the latest happenings in Moism and it gives me fodder to add to the website seeing the latest craziness the church is spewing out. We also have friends there and don't want to lose them but we don't let the church push us around and we take it on our own terms - no tithing, garmies or other things we disagree with.<br>'''SpongeBob SquareGarments''', responding to this praise on ''Recovery from Mormonism'', April 20, 2012.
</blockquote>
 
==Other testimonials==
<blockquote>
My challenge remains: find me a web site that is more honest/objective/accurate/comprehensive on factual Mormon history than Mormon Think. I'm all eyes/ears.... Both (all) sites are biased -- I think that the FAIR site is 50x more biased than Mormon Think. Just my opinion....My experience is that the FAIR/FARMS spin ultimately causes much more harm than good. It's just rarely credible to thoughtful, objective people who are trying to uncover the "truth." Consequently, it can be really disco..<br>'''John Dehlin''', post on Dehlin’s Facebook wall, 3-4 January 2012, {{link|url=https://www.facebook.com/johndehlin/posts/592940706139/}}
</blockquote>
 
=={{Subarticles label}}==
{{SummaryItem
{{SummaryItem
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Overview
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Overview
|subject=Overview of the MormonThink website
|subject=Overview of the MormonThink website
|summary=The web site MormonThink.com claims to be operated by active members of the Church with an interest in objectively presenting the "truth" about Mormonism. In general, the conclusions reached by the site reflect negatively on the Church.
|summary=The web site MormonThink.com claims to be operated by active members of the Church with an interest in objectively presenting the "truth" about Mormonism. In general, the conclusions reached by the site reflect negatively on the Church. The best explanation of the purpose of the website is offered the words of its own webmaster, and by the testimonials of ex-Mormons who claim that the site caused them to lose belief and leave the Church.  
}}
}}
{{SummaryItem
{{SummaryItem
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/25 items that would allegedly "make the Church true"
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/25 items that would allegedly "make the Church true"
|subject=Response to MormonThink's list of 25 items that would allegedly "make the Church true"
|subject=Response to MormonThink's list of 25 items that would allegedly "make the Church true"
|summary=According to MormonThink.com, if the Church actually contained God's truth and authority, "we would expect the following things to have happened in this way." The following is a list of issues presented by the website followed by FAIR's response. Most items on the list are standard anti-Mormon fare, issues FAIR believes have been "asked and answered" many times. Nearly all points appeal to some type of intellectual or religious fundamentalism.
|summary=({{antilink|http://www.mormonthink.com/endpage.htm}}) According to MormonThink.com, if the Church actually contained God's truth and authority, "we would expect the following things to have happened in this way." The following is a list of issues presented by the website followed by FairMormon's response. Most items on the list are standard anti-Mormon fare, issues FairMormon believes have been "asked and answered" many times. Nearly all points appeal to some type of intellectual or religious fundamentalism.
}}
}}
{{SummaryItem
 
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Websites/MormonThink/Index
{{FairMormonBlogBar
|subject=MormonThink Table of Contents
|title=A Yankee Lawyer’s Guide to the “Mormon Apocalypse”
|summary=Correlation of ''MormonThink's'' Table of Contents with FAIR Wiki responses
|link=https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2014/02/17/a-yankee-lawyers-guide-to-the-mormon-apocalypse
|author=SteveDensleyJr
|date=February 17, 2014
|summary=A British man named Tom Philips has filed a fraud action in England against President Thomas Monson and is claiming that it will bring on the “Mormon Apocalypse.” However, rather than inciting fear and panic among the faithful, if they know about the case at all, the most common response is one of bewilderment among Mormons and non-Mormons alike. That is due partly to the fact that it seems quite odd that someone would pursue a case for fraud that is based on faith claims and personal opinions. But, at least for Americans, the odd nature by which the claim has arisen procedurally is equally puzzling.
<br>
As an American civil defense lawyer, I think I have been as befuddled by this case as anyone. So I’ve consulted British lawyers and legal sources and come up with the following guide to what Phillips has called, the “Mormon Apocalypse.”
}}
}}


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[[fr:Website reviews/MormonThink]]
[[es:La crítica del Mormonismo/Sitios web/PiensaMormón]]

Latest revision as of 20:20, 13 April 2024

A FairMormon Analysis of the critical website MormonThink.com



I fantasize about a full-blown faith-destroying session. In real life, I did put the bishop in his place over polygamy. He kept saying I was wrong about Joseph having other wives and being illegal and such. I proved him wrong and he ate crow. twas fun.

—MormonThink's first managing editor, Feb. 21, 2012, 12:50PM. [1]
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An individual displays a sign advertising MormonThink.com during "The American Atheists Mass Resignation Event" at the April 2014 General Conference
∗       ∗       ∗

A FairMormon Analysis of claims made on the critical website MormonThink.com

Summary: The web site MormonThink.com originally claimed to be operated by active members of the Church with an interest in objectively presenting the "truth" about Mormonism. They authors have since abandoned the pretense that any of them are "active" in the Church. The founding webmaster was, by his own admission, pretending to be semi-active in order to destroy members' and missionaries' testimonies from within the social structure of the Church. The site pretends to be "balanced" by presenting information and links to apologetic sites, however, the conclusions reached by the site consistently reflect negatively on the Church's truth claims. The site also sometimes contains a large amount of Temple content.


Jump to details:

Overview

The website mormonthink.com is designed to lead Church members into questioning their beliefs in a non-threatening manner by claiming to be "objective" and "balanced." For years that site claimed to be run by active members of the Church. In reality, however, they were "active" only in the sense that some of them still occasionally attended Church—they did not accept the Church's truth claims, and they had no interest in strengthening belief. Instead, the site portrays Church leaders as liars, Joseph Smith as a fraud and con-man, and the Church as "an oppressive empire building corporation." The site includes links to FairMormon as a way of demonstrating their claimed "balance."

Each page on MormonThink.com typically includes quotes from Church sources, large amounts of block text copied from websites critical of the Church, a few references to LDS apologetics that are followed by mocking refutations by critics, and and ending summary which generally agrees with the critics. The bottom of each page contains links to critical sites, believers' sites and to some sites which they consider neutral.


Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Translation of the Book of Mormon"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Book of Mormon Problems"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Lost 116 Pages of the Book of Mormon"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Could Joseph Smith have written the Book of Mormon?"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Witnesses"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Moroni's Visitation"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The First Vision"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Book of Abraham"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Kinderhook Plates"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Joseph's Translation of the Bible"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Running with Gold Plates"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Polygamy"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Blacks and the Priesthood"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Greek Psalter Incident"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Conflicts with Science"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Tithing"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "The Temple"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Lying for the Lord"


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Response to claims made on MormonThink page "Doctrine & Covenants"


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The "Spin Free" Section

The following articles extract all of the primary and secondary source quotes from the critical site, places them within their original context when possible, and provides links to the original sources online. This allows you to read the critics' articles free of critical or apologetic "spin." You read the quotes and decide for yourself what to think, without any help from FairMormon or from the critics at MormonThink. If you want to check the sources, we make it easy to go back and look at the originals whenever possible. We won't tell you what to think, and neither will the critics.

A FairMormon Analysis of MormonThink page "Joseph Smith, Captain Kidd, Cumorah And Moroni"

Summary: Grant Palmer published a paper called "Joseph Smith, Captain Kidd, Cumorah And Moroni" in the John Whitmer Historical Association Journal in 2014. Palmer asserts that Joseph Smith acquired the names "Cumorah" and "Moroni" by reading stories of Captain Kidd in his youth. Palmer concludes that it is "reasonable to assert that Joseph Smith's hill in the "land of Camorah" [Comorah/Cumorah], "city of Moroni," and "land of Moroni" [2] We respond to these claims in this article.

A FairMormon Analysis of MormonThink page "Kirtland Temple Dedication"

Summary: ( http://mormonthink.com/glossary/kirtlandtemplededication.htm)Regarding the heavenly manifestations that accompanied the Kirtland Temple dedication, Mormonthink concludes that "It's likely that Joseph said he was seeing something angelic and told the congregation what he claimed to be seeing. Those in attendance relayed what Joseph said he saw. Everyone was so excited for this grand event, that they likely got caught up in the moment and imagined some extraordinary things."

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Overview of the MormonThink website

Summary: The web site MormonThink.com claims to be operated by active members of the Church with an interest in objectively presenting the "truth" about Mormonism. In general, the conclusions reached by the site reflect negatively on the Church. The best explanation of the purpose of the website is offered the words of its own webmaster, and by the testimonials of ex-Mormons who claim that the site caused them to lose belief and leave the Church.

Response to MormonThink's list of 25 items that would allegedly "make the Church true"

Summary: ( http://www.mormonthink.com/endpage.htm) According to MormonThink.com, if the Church actually contained God's truth and authority, "we would expect the following things to have happened in this way." The following is a list of issues presented by the website followed by FairMormon's response. Most items on the list are standard anti-Mormon fare, issues FairMormon believes have been "asked and answered" many times. Nearly all points appeal to some type of intellectual or religious fundamentalism.

The FAIR Blog responds to these questions

SteveDensleyJr,"A Yankee Lawyer’s Guide to the “Mormon Apocalypse”", FAIR Blog, (February 17, 2014)


A British man named Tom Philips has filed a fraud action in England against President Thomas Monson and is claiming that it will bring on the “Mormon Apocalypse.” However, rather than inciting fear and panic among the faithful, if they know about the case at all, the most common response is one of bewilderment among Mormons and non-Mormons alike. That is due partly to the fact that it seems quite odd that someone would pursue a case for fraud that is based on faith claims and personal opinions. But, at least for Americans, the odd nature by which the claim has arisen procedurally is equally puzzling.


As an American civil defense lawyer, I think I have been as befuddled by this case as anyone. So I’ve consulted British lawyers and legal sources and come up with the following guide to what Phillips has called, the “Mormon Apocalypse.”

Click here to view the complete article


Notes

  1. ↑ Comment by MormonThink's founding editor, posting as "SpongeBob SquareGarments" on the ex-Mormon message board Recovery from Mormonism, Feb. 21, 2012 at 12:50PM. After FairMormon posted this quote, the original was deleted from the RFM board. The original thread in which it appeared, however, still exists here: Thread Anyone Fantasize About a Showdown with SP or Bishop?, Recovery from Mormonism, posted Feb. 20, 2012.
  2. ↑ Grant Palmer, John Whitmer Historical Association vol. 34 no. 1 Spring/Summer 2014
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